Partial decandling

[bonsaibandit]

I have what I believe is a pinus nigra that I got from a friend that I am growing it out to develop it into a shohin sized bonsai. It has some low movement and a lot of small low branches currently but I would like the trunk thicker. I have it growing in perlite/coco coir mix in a pond colander pot. My question is should I decandle the small branches low on the trunk that I will want to be keeping for the final design (in order to keep them small and ramified) while leaving the sacrifice leader untouched? See pictures below. I’m hoping someone with experience developing pines can offer some advice. Thanks!

 

[yashu]

This is a single flush pine so you shouldn’t decandle at all. You could pinch candles to control vigor but it appears you are well past time to do that. I believe that once the needles start extending and hardening off the window has closed. I can tell you that here in Maine my pinus Nigra is well past pinching stage.

 

[yashu]

How sure are you that this is European Black Pine and not Japanese black pine? Looking at the photos a little more closely I’m thinking it could be JBP and in that case it is indeed a multi-flush pine and could be decandled. I would be very sure of the species before I would proceed.

 

[Paradox]

If it is a single flush pine, you can cut back the new shoots in mid August to September. This means cutting this year's shoots in half and leaving a few pairs of this year's needles. If the tree is strong and healthy, it should promote back budding

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I usually let mine grow until late August then cut the extended candles all the way back. This forces the tree to use all that energy that built up over the summer to push new buds. I usually end up with tons of new buds that have to be thinned out the following spring.

The other option is to let the candles extend in the spring then cut back the longest terminal candle. This will stop it from extending further and also gives more energy to smaller buds further back on the branch to develop. It also can force back budding on the branch.

 

[bonsaibandit]

Thanks for the advice everyone! @yashu any tips for definitively distinguishing pines nigra and JBP?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Short of a dichotomous key…. more curved needles and straighter more upright growth is all I got….

Was there a label on the tree?

For those folks interested, below is a link to a list on pines that do and do not benefit from decanting… as well as those in betweeners

Which pine species can I decandle? - Bonsai Tonight

Decandling is a great technique for refining selected pine species trained as bonsai. At its most basic, decandling refers to the removal of spring growth

bonsaitonight.com

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Thanks for the advice everyone! @yashu any tips for definitively distinguishing pines nigra and JBP?

I have both side by side on my bench and the main differences I see is that my P. nigra are much coarser with generally longer needles although if left to grow my JBP needles can get just as long and when managed properly my P. nigra needles can get shorter. Also in the spring the terminal buds of P. nigra are larger with distinctively whiter centers. The best method is to make sure to check the label in the pot before tossing it!

 

[Shibui]

I think I read that nigra is likely to have sap on the buds while thunbergii are almost always clean. Can't find that reference now though?

 

[Betula1]

I have both side by side on my bench and the main differences I see is that my P. nigra are much coarser with generally longer needles although if left to grow my JBP needles can get just as long and when managed properly my P. nigra needles can get shorter. Also in the spring the terminal buds of P. nigra are larger with distinctively whiter centers. The best method is to make sure to check the label in the pot before tossing it!

If you take a look at info on Pinus nigra on Wikipedia there are numerous subspecies and varieties from different parts of southern Europe so that makes ID more tricky:-

Pinus nigra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

However it also says that In both the US and UK most of the specimens planted are from Austrian sources, the P. nigra subsp. nigra and P. nigra subsp. nigra var. nigra seed selections, so yours is most likely from this group.