Over watering or under watering?

[PastryBaker]

A question for the experienced growers out there. When it comes to beginners, which do you think is more of a problem.
Over watering or under watering? I know it depends on the substrate, but just in general.

Thanks and Happy Growing

 

[Joelshack2362]

I personally think that over watering is something beginners struggle with. I think it's out of good intentions of wanting to keep the tree alive and that means must be watered daily to achieve success. Luckily with good information and the internet modern bonsai enthusiasts can quickly correct bad habits unlike in the past.

 

[Carol 83]

It depends on the tree. Overwatering is problematic for bougainvillea's whereas underwatering is the same for Water Jasmine.

 

[Shibui]

I suspect it may depend on location too. Down here, where we have hot, dry summers, I rarely hear of overwatering problems. Many more deaths from under watering. Overwatering takes weeks or months to affect the tree and then it declines slowly over weeks. Underwatering can kill in just a few hours.

 

[rockm]

Definitely overwatering. Owners tend to overcare for their trees, fussing, clipping and such. They think they have to being doing something to the tree every time they look at it. Also the soil in the beginners/mallsai trees they're working with tends to be muck which tends to stay soggy.

 

[August44]

Over watering by far IMO. I am very guilty of that and struggle with it. Why hasn't someone come up with a tester of sorts that measures water content in granular substrate? The finger test I get. The chop stick test, I do not. There has to be a better way.

 

[Brain Treez]

Over watering by far IMO. I am very guilty of that and struggle with it. Why hasn't someone come up with a tester of sorts that measures water content in granular substrate? The finger test I get. The chop stick test, I do not. There has to be a better way.

What do you not like about the chopstick method? I have really liked it. I've got one in every pot, pull it out like I'm checking the oil. I wipe it on my palm and it seems like I can really get a sense of the media's moisture level. It's resulted in me cutting back my watering when it's not hot.

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

I never used it. Do you let those in the soil all the time or only put them in when you want to check for moisture?
I have always used the dry by eye method but i am having algae again on top of free draining soils even in pondbaskets.

 

[WIlliam_Butler_Yeets]

Caveat: I'm a bonsai newb, but I think overwatering is probably more prevalent and more of an issue, especially when you're just growing out stock and it's in organic media. With my juniper that's been potted into all inorganic, the water runs through it so fast I don't know if I realistically could overwater it

 

[ShadyStump]

The finger test I get. The chop stick test, I do not. There has to be a better way.

What do you not like about the chopstick method? I have really liked it. I've got one in every pot, pull it out like I'm checking the oil. I wipe it on my palm and it seems like I can really get a sense of the media's moisture level. It's resulted in me cutting back my watering when it's not hot.

I never used it. Do you let those in the soil all the time or only put them in when you want to check for moisture?
I have always used the dry by eye method but i am having algae again on top of free draining soils even in pondbaskets.

Yes, you just leave it in the soil the entire time, use it like a dipstick. Pull it out and feel how moist it is, put it back exactly where you got it from. Ideally it should be near the center of the pot, at an angle to reach under the trunk. That's not always possible depending on your root situation, so just do the best you can.

The chopstick trick has been really helpful for me, but just looking at it or touching it doesn't work for me. If you're the sort with plenty of calus you won't feel a thing, and just looking is very inaccurate.
I have to actually put the stick to my lips. Cheek would work if I didn't have a beard. The point is pick a spot that's sensitive enough to really tell how wet the stick is. Water when it's all but completely dry. Some species like it drier or wetter, of course, so adjust for that, but that's the gist of it.

 

[August44]

when its wet or damp, obviously

What do you not like about the chopstick method? I have really liked it. I've got one in every pot, pull it out like I'm checking the oil. I wipe it on my palm and it seems like I can really get a sense of the media's moisture level. It's resulted in me cutting back my watering when it's not hot.

Yes, you just leave it in the soil the entire time, use it like a dipstick. Pull it out and feel how moist it is, put it back exactly where you got it from. Ideally it should be near the center of the pot, at an angle to reach under the trunk. That's not always possible depending on your root situation, so just do the best you can.

The chopstick trick has been really helpful for me, but just looking at it or touching it doesn't work for me. If you're the sort with plenty of calus you won't feel a thing, and just looking is very inaccurate.
I have to actually put the stick to my lips. Cheek would work if I didn't have a beard. The point is pick a spot that's sensitive enough to really tell how wet the stick is. Water when it's all but completely dry. Some species like it drier or wetter, of course, so adjust for that, but that's the gist of it.

The chop stick deal baffles me. You stick it in and if the soil/substrates are wet the chop stick gets wet. 2-6 days later the chop is still a little wet. Maybe its wet because the wood was soaked from watering previously, but the soil may not be wet. In that case, by the time the stick dries out the soil is dry. If you put the stick in the soil the tree was collected with it will show wet when maybe the pumice around it is bone dry. I just wish there was a better way to test soils for moisture.

 

[Pixar]

Hi ,
You should consider this :

WH0291_C Console for WH0291 Soil Moisture Tester

Features Measurement: Indoor temperature & humidity; Time; Upgradable (additional purchase): Soil Moisture Meter; Signal condition indicator; Specifications (WH0291_C Display) Measurement Range Accuracy Resolution Temperature (Indoor) -10°C to 60°C (-14°F to 140°F) ± 0.3°C (± 0.6°F) 0.1°C...

shop.ecowitt.com

and this

WH51 Wireless Soil Moisture Meter – Soil Moisture Sensor for Irrigatio

Soil Moisture Meter: measures soil moisture content within 72 seconds and the data can be viewed on our free WSView plus App after the WiFi configuration(requires a GW1100/GW2000 gateway[sold separately]) to let you know when to water your plant/lawn/garden [Accessory Only, Can Not Be Used...

shop.ecowitt.com

Display with soil moisture

I have been using this for over two years works well

 

[nuttiest]

It never got easier for me. Now it is different soils in nursery containers, different bonsai mix/ pot size. Change of season and loss of humidity tricks me, then they do this thing where one species is suddenly going to be the heavy drinkers in late summer or fall. Picking up the pot to gauge weight is an easy tell when unsure.
At this point I sometimes let them wilt before watering and all the earliest wilters go on a different bench to get more water. Those are almost always in super fine peaty mix that won't accept water quickly.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Hi ,
You should consider this :

WH0291_C Console for WH0291 Soil Moisture Tester

Features Measurement: Indoor temperature & humidity; Time; Upgradable (additional purchase): Soil Moisture Meter; Signal condition indicator; Specifications (WH0291_C Display) Measurement Range Accuracy Resolution Temperature (Indoor) -10°C to 60°C (-14°F to 140°F) ± 0.3°C (± 0.6°F) 0.1°C...

shop.ecowitt.com

and this

WH51 Wireless Soil Moisture Meter – Soil Moisture Sensor for Irrigatio

Soil Moisture Meter: measures soil moisture content within 72 seconds and the data can be viewed on our free WSView plus App after the WiFi configuration(requires a GW1100/GW2000 gateway[sold separately]) to let you know when to water your plant/lawn/garden [Accessory Only, Can Not Be Used...

shop.ecowitt.com

Display with soil moisture

I have been using this for over two years works well

Does something like this actually work? I've read moisture meters are not very accurate?

 

[Joelshack2362]

Thats

It never got easier for me. Now it is different soils in nursery containers, different bonsai mix/ pot size. Change of season and loss of humidity tricks me, then they do this thing where one species is suddenly going to be the heavy drinkers in late summer or fall. Picking up the pot to gauge weight is an easy tell when unsure.
At this point I sometimes let them wilt before watering and all the earliest wilters go on a different bench to get more water. Those are almost always in super fine peaty mix that won't accept water quickly.

I have been trying to feel the weight as well. For me it seems to be a good way to tell as well if it's needing water or can go a another day without.

 

[August44]

Hi ,
You should consider this :

WH0291_C Console for WH0291 Soil Moisture Tester

Features Measurement: Indoor temperature & humidity; Time; Upgradable (additional purchase): Soil Moisture Meter; Signal condition indicator; Specifications (WH0291_C Display) Measurement Range Accuracy Resolution Temperature (Indoor) -10°C to 60°C (-14°F to 140°F) ± 0.3°C (± 0.6°F) 0.1°C...

shop.ecowitt.com

and this

WH51 Wireless Soil Moisture Meter – Soil Moisture Sensor for Irrigatio

Soil Moisture Meter: measures soil moisture content within 72 seconds and the data can be viewed on our free WSView plus App after the WiFi configuration(requires a GW1100/GW2000 gateway[sold separately]) to let you know when to water your plant/lawn/garden [Accessory Only, Can Not Be Used...

shop.ecowitt.com

Display with soil moisture

I have been using this for over two years works well

Interesting Pixar. Do these work in granulated soils? I am assuming that when purchased, each probe comes with a small re-out screen that one could put in the house on the wall?

 

[Paradox]

Moisture meters will not work in the open soil we use. I used the chopstick method for my first 2 to 3 years doing bonsai. It never failed me.

If the chopstick is wet, the soil around it is wet. If it was almost dry, the soil had some moisture but was almost dry. I always watered and advocate to water when the stick is almost dry. You never let it dry out completely.

I personally don't like using weight because every pot and tree weighs different weight and knowing each and every pot exactly seems a bit complicated. Plus once the trees are on the bench, I don't like moving them around unless absolutely necessary other than to turn them or work on the tree.

 

[August44]

Moisture meters will not work in the open soil we use. I used the chopstick method for my first 2 to 3 years doing bonsai. It never failed me.

If the chopstick is wet, the soil around it is wet. If it was almost dry, the soil had some moisture but was almost dry. I always watered and advocate to water when the stick is almost dry. You never let it dry out completely.

Just so I understand this method, to determine if the chop stick is wet, are you looking at it, feeling it or what? Maybe you can describe what you observe when testing and what it means. Seriously, I'd like to get this.

 

[Paradox]

Just so I understand this method, to determine if the chop stick is wet, are you looking at it, feeling it or what? Maybe you can describe what you observe when testing and what it means. Seriously, I'd like to get this.

Yup, I remove it from the soil, look at and feel it. If it looks wet (typically glistening), feels very wet, the tree does not need water. If it just feels a little damp and looks mostly dry, water.

This might seem strange but I've found that the skin beneath my nose is very sentitive to moisture, more so than fingers sometimes. If I had a stick I wasnt sure of, I routinely would touch the part of the stick that had been in the soil to the skin beneath my nose. Obviously if you have a mustache, thar won't work but the skin around your wrist should also work now that I think about it. Finger pads have thicker skin and can often be callused which reduces sensitivity.

 

[August44]

Yup, I remove it from the soil, look at and feel it. If it looks wet (typically glistening), feels very wet, the tree does not need water. If it just feels a little damp and looks mostly dry, water.

This might seem strange but I've found that the skin beneath my nose is very sentitive to moisture, more so than fingers sometimes. If I had a stick I wasnt sure of, I routinely would touch the part of the stick that had been in the soil to the skin beneath my nose. Obviously if you have a mustache, thar won't work but the skin around your wrist should also work now that I think about it. Finger pads have thicker skin and can often be callused which reduces sensitivity.

Great answer Paradox! Thanks