Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Tree looking great/healthy
. Straight front trunk still bothersome
. Straight front trunk still bothersome
Oldest collected white spruce!
- Thread starter Tycoss
- Start date
wireme
Masterpiece
One of those two was very weak when collected, tiny yellow needles, few buds. The other was healthy but was a dig around tree not a rock pocket collection. I left the soil intact so maybe I just didn’t have many roots. I do have a bit of a common problem with my spruce in general though. The substrate often fills with myc very quickly and water stops penetrating. Feels like I can stand there all day watering and still the core dehydrates. It took me a while to figure that out because the did appear wet on the outside. I’ve had that happen to a fully barerooted spruce in coarse substrate within a month of potting before. A couple trees nearly died but they are cheering right up now that I know. I actually have to submerse a few of them in a tub periodically through the summer, once every couple weeks or so and water for long durations the rest of the time.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Mic can transport minerals, so I would expect that it also transports (some) water (?).
Some of my trees' substrate get spontaneously inoculated with mic from my environs. Water doesn't perk as fast, but the trees keep on growing. So, maybe worrying about percolation with mic is misplaced?
It is interesting to me that it always seems to be bigger ones of mine (all nursery trees) that get the mic, or at least they have become the more vigorous ones by the time I discover the mic. It is far from obvious (to me, the casual observer) which is the cause and which is the effect, but we do have a lot of scientific research that says the mic made them become more vigorous. To my superficial understanding, mic and tree roots 'exchange bodily fluids', so maybe weak percolation isn't so much of a worry as one intuits. You're the the mushroom man, @wireme .
Some of my trees' substrate get spontaneously inoculated with mic from my environs. Water doesn't perk as fast, but the trees keep on growing. So, maybe worrying about percolation with mic is misplaced?
It is interesting to me that it always seems to be bigger ones of mine (all nursery trees) that get the mic, or at least they have become the more vigorous ones by the time I discover the mic. It is far from obvious (to me, the casual observer) which is the cause and which is the effect, but we do have a lot of scientific research that says the mic made them become more vigorous. To my superficial understanding, mic and tree roots 'exchange bodily fluids', so maybe weak percolation isn't so much of a worry as one intuits. You're the the mushroom man, @wireme .
wireme
Masterpiece
What you’re saying makes perfect sense. I’ll get back to you.
wireme
Masterpiece
I guess it’s the degree of percolation that determines if one needs worry about it. It’s funny, I have seen lots of people here mention myc clogging up the drainage holes and things like that but I don’t recall any talk of the difficulty of getting water into the rootball to begin with. I’m pretty sure it does transport water very well and probably over a fair distance as well but at the end of the day no water is just no water. I’m not one to easily jump to conclusions regarding definitive causes of tree decline but I’m pretty confident on this one!
At any rate I’ve watched a number of my trees get much stronger with a change in watering habits that does include occasional submersion for some of them. I’ve been through the other stuff, moss, no moss, replacing the surface soil etc, full bare root vs HBR..it is worse with mounding but also happens with rimspace. I called it a problem earlier, maybe not the best word. It certainly was a problem, now seems not to be as I adjusted, maybe it’ll be a problem again next year. When I say water doesn’t go in with normal watering realize that normal watering means heavy watering and often. Anyhow it just seemed worth mentioning because I lost a couple or more years development of some trees before I figured out what was happening.
What I don’t get is why a moisture loving organism like fungi grows a mycelium that is so difficult to rehydrate? My mushroom blocks are the same, sawdust bound together with mycelium, after the first flush they can produce more if they are rehydrated but they need to be weighted down or they just float and don’t absorb much. Even after 24hrs of being weighted underwater they pop up like corks, they would probably float for weeks that’s how hydrophobic they are. A couple of my more myc ridden spruce are similar they will bob up and down like corks in the tub for a fair while when it’s time to give them a dunk. I’m thinking that staying dry until very prolonged moist conditions come around is probably some kind of preservation mechanism.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks for the minor expose @wireme.
I unpredictably get heavy myc in pond baskets and plastic nursery pots, so I never have the 'mounding' trouble. Percolation also equates to air-filled porosity in some fashion.
I've been pondering when does myc become a problem (I have no linguistic quibble). Thanks for the insight.
Sorry 'bout bombing your thread, @Tycoss
I unpredictably get heavy myc in pond baskets and plastic nursery pots, so I never have the 'mounding' trouble. Percolation also equates to air-filled porosity in some fashion.
I've been pondering when does myc become a problem (I have no linguistic quibble). Thanks for the insight.
Sorry 'bout bombing your thread, @Tycoss
Tycoss
Chumono
No problem. I found the discussion very interesting.Thanks for the minor expose @wireme.
I unpredictably get heavy myc in pond baskets and plastic nursery pots, so I never have the 'mounding' trouble. Percolation also equates to air-filled porosity in some fashion.
I've been pondering when does myc become a problem (I have no linguistic quibble). Thanks for the insight.
Sorry 'bout bombing your thread, @Tycoss
wireme
Masterpiece
Thanks for the minor expose @wireme.
I unpredictably get heavy myc in pond baskets and plastic nursery pots, so I never have the 'mounding' trouble. Percolation also equates to air-filled porosity in some fashion.
I've been pondering when does myc become a problem (I have no linguistic quibble). Thanks for the insight.
Sorry 'bout bombing your thread, @Tycoss
When you’re soils start to look like this then it can be a problem unless you adjust watering accordingly, then I don’t know if it’s a problem, hope not. That’s 100 percent pumice 3/8”. It’s not like I do anything to encourage the stuff, feed and water much like many others and this can happen within a season. . I’m not really worried, a few trees slowed down, all seems well now. I appreciate the discussion though, can’t really sit down in the bar and ask someone how they feel about the effects of mycorrhizal fungi on air filled porosity.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Now THAT is a most amusing thought
Tycoss
Chumono
The tree is kicking ass again this year with lots of very strong buds. More cutbacks and wiring will be happening eventually. The long straight central trunk will be reduced most of the way I think. I also want to shorten some branches to bring them closer to the trunks.
defra
Masterpiece
Nice, looking happy!
I'd love to see a picture of the whole tree!
Tycoss
Chumono
Here is this spruce as it is now. The first picture is the present “front”. Second is the “back”. Last is a picture of the little branch that developed from the backbud I showed earlier in the thread.
Tycoss
Chumono
I’m still working on getting it shortened and compacted. Wiring and deadwood work can come after that.
wireme
Masterpiece
Looking good!
You’ve got some work ahead of you when you decide to start reducing that rootball eh?
Tycoss
Chumono
Yep. It’s going to be a big job for sure. I’m sure all that top growth has been mirrored underground. I probably should have worked the roots this year, but it’s now past the season where I am comfortable doing that. Another year of working on the top I suppose.
Tycoss
Chumono
After fall pruning and reapplying wire. I'll get a better picture when the lighting is better:
Tycoss
Chumono
As promised, I think these pictures have less interference from shadows and a better view of the base:
