Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I agree with this dimension. If your grade of Turface is fired at a high enough temperature it does not need to be so coarse, it will retain it's structure quite a long time.
Oh look, another soil thread...
- Thread starter Redwood Ryan
- Start date
I agree with this dimension. If your grade of Turface is fired at a high enough temperature it does not need to be so coarse, it will retain it's structure quite a long time.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Fine grain size + poorly sorted + angular fragments = high water retention
I prefer a more aerated mixture. If turface was coarser and more rounded, I believe that it would be a much better soil component.
Scott
I prefer a more aerated mixture. If turface was coarser and more rounded, I believe that it would be a much better soil component.
Scott
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Scott,
I am in Austin and I welcome high water retention (as long as it is free draining). I even add lots of organics, otherwise once a day watering won't be sufficient. What is your secret?
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Have lecture, will travel. I've given it to the Houston club, I could do it for Austin as well.
But it's not much of a secret - I water more. Twice today already - once before I left for work, once by a misting system at noon, and (some) of them will be dry when I get home. Gives me an opportunity to spend some quality time daily with my trees.
I use akadama, lava, and pumice - no organics (except for a handful of horticultural charcoal). I have two size ranges 1/8-1/4 and 1/4-3/8. I use the smaller size fraction for my less drought tolerant plants (bald cypress & fukien tea, primarily). Eveything else is in the coarse cut. The last couple of years I've experimented with substituting the lava for 1) more pumice, 2) haydite, 3) seramis. So far, I've liked the seramis best because it can hold as much water as turface, but has better drainage because it is well rounded and coarser grained.
This works for me, because it has taken a lot of the guesswork out of watering and fertilization. It's almost impossible to overwater, but the tradeoff is that it is extremely easy to underwater. It won't work for you if you can't water more frequently than once/day. If you can, I think you'll be happy with the results. It's a wonderfully satisfying feeling when you can see truly effective colonization of the entire pot and soil surface by roots - something I've never managed to obtain with turface (which I used for years).
Hope that helps.
Scott
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Here's what you're looking for (sorry for the external link):
http://crataegus.com/2012/09/11/how-to-avoid-burned-leaves-on-deciduous-bonsai/
Bottom line is that if you see this result, it indicates that your combination of soil mix, watering practice, and fertilization schedule is working. Dont change anything. If you don't see, in Michael's words, "fine roots bumping happily along the top surface of the soil and through your moss", consider changing something around. In my healthier plants, here's what I can see - all these trees were repotted this past spring (except the Texas Ebony, which I repotted mid summer one year ago):
In order, Taxodium distichum, Ebenopsis ebano, Schefflera arboricola, Acer palmatum
The maple and the bald cypress are in equal parts akadama, seramis, and pumice. The schefflera and the Texas ebony have haydite instead of seramis. The black bits are horticultural charcoal.
Although other may have abundant success with turface, I've never been able to get such healthy rootage with the stuff.
Scott
http://crataegus.com/2012/09/11/how-to-avoid-burned-leaves-on-deciduous-bonsai/
Bottom line is that if you see this result, it indicates that your combination of soil mix, watering practice, and fertilization schedule is working. Dont change anything. If you don't see, in Michael's words, "fine roots bumping happily along the top surface of the soil and through your moss", consider changing something around. In my healthier plants, here's what I can see - all these trees were repotted this past spring (except the Texas Ebony, which I repotted mid summer one year ago):
In order, Taxodium distichum, Ebenopsis ebano, Schefflera arboricola, Acer palmatum
The maple and the bald cypress are in equal parts akadama, seramis, and pumice. The schefflera and the Texas ebony have haydite instead of seramis. The black bits are horticultural charcoal.
Although other may have abundant success with turface, I've never been able to get such healthy rootage with the stuff.
Scott
jkd2572
Masterpiece
This is what your looking for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Composted-P...248?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec9bfe9c0
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks Scott.
Not an option for me then. Can't water more than once a day and cannot do automatic sprinkler more than once a WEEK!
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Done sifting for today. I sifted turface at 1/16" and pumice at 1/8". If you thought turface was dusty, get a bag of pumice....
jkd2572
Masterpiece
Sifting is below lime sulfur in fun bonsai things to do. I like the color of your turface. I ordered some online and it has a light yellow appearance. Every gradual is the same color. I wonder the difference. I'm still trying to find a source for pumice in my area.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Hmm interesting, no clue
Unable to find crushed lava around me, I found an old bag I had sitting around. Grabbed my mallet, smashed some of it, sweeped it up, and passed it through the 1/8" screen. Not sure what Eric will think though
jkd2572
Masterpiece
Sorry mine is the same color. I got some Kanuma in the mail today that was yellow. On a side note I have never seen Kanuma in person before. You can mash between you finger tips. I will mix something harder with it when repotting my azalea. Seems the stuff would turn to mush overtime. Japan azalea growers swear by the stuff so bought some for its acidity.
Hmm interesting, no clue
Unable to find crushed lava around me, I found an old bag I had sitting around. Grabbed my mallet, smashed some of it, sweeped it up, and passed it through the 1/8" screen. Not sure what Eric will think though
View attachment 40312
Looks good.
In comparison, this is how my soil looks like. Its a 16" long pot. its about 1/4" to 3/8" particle size. A very coarse mix.
Hope that helps
Eric
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Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Looks just like mine. I just finished smashing up some more, and I've now got all my ingredients. Now to determine what amounts of each I want to put in. Seeing the small particle size of the turface, I'm thinking just a small amount of that, then pumice, and lava rock. Add my organics and I should be good to go.
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Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
I'll check if I can find the vendor who offered to supply our club (either by 5 gal pails or by CY). I believe he is in Dallas but the deal didn't materialize...not enough interest (low volume) and delivery cost broke the deal.
I'll let you know.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Alright soil experts, what say you about this mix? Small amount of turface, crushed lava rock, and majority of pumice. And, of course, organics.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
So far, the one tree I've got potted in this mix is growing like a weed. Backbudding all along the branches and shooting roots down out the bottom of the pot. I think I'll make my own soil from here on out...
michaelj
Chumono
I've finally settled in on a mix that seems to be working well for me.
I wash (using a window screen-sized screen basket) pumice, diatomite and/or turface and mix them together for my non-organic element.
I mix compost, potting soil (Fox Farms Ocean Forest) and small orchid bark for my organic element.
For most plants, I then mix 4-1 non-organic to organic. Broad-leaf species that like a little more water will get a 3-1 mix.
Finally, I add about a tablespoon of worm castings per gallon, and about a tablespoon of azomite, insect frass and mykos per 5 gallons of soil.
I wash (using a window screen-sized screen basket) pumice, diatomite and/or turface and mix them together for my non-organic element.
I mix compost, potting soil (Fox Farms Ocean Forest) and small orchid bark for my organic element.
For most plants, I then mix 4-1 non-organic to organic. Broad-leaf species that like a little more water will get a 3-1 mix.
Finally, I add about a tablespoon of worm castings per gallon, and about a tablespoon of azomite, insect frass and mykos per 5 gallons of soil.
nathanbs
Omono
ill leave the organics out of my advice as im sure youve heard it all before. Ill focus on soil particle size and the importance of it being fairly consistent to insure that there will be appropriate air space for oxygen. I know you are having a hard time finding sources for your mix ingredients however there are sources for these ingredients out there you have to keep on looking. House of Bonsai in lakewood California ships I believe as they often sell trees on ebay. They have everything you need. The ideal particle size is between 1/8"-1/4" for most of your needs. If you want soil to be a little wetter use all 1/8", a little drier all 1/4". I see your lava particle size as being too large and some of your pumice is too big as well. While trying to have a consistent particle size you will figure out the single largest issue with organics: It fills in all of the airspaces that are important for optimum root health
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Thanks, but I've actually gotten the best growth, root wise and otherwise, out of this mix. As the above picture shows, the roots are growing wild. The lava and pumice size seem to be just fine.
nathanbs
Omono
best compared to what? Perhaps it can be further improved? No offense but what you are doing has been done for quite awhile(i'm talking soil)and over the years improvements have been made, why choose to ignore those improvements?
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