nontraditional and postmodern bonsai

[tantric]

thanks, amcoffeegirl, dozo yorushiku.

my only real plans for nontraditional bonsai is a to grow a root over rock on a broken red brick. i want it in a biotope 'american backyard' terrarium with toads, anoles, blue tailed skinks, etc. i'm seeing a fake water spigot dripping into a concrete bowl (recycling system), a pile of bricks, english ivy, maybe a daffodil depending on the soil depth. i might even use some of this hideous fake brick siding for a back-wall, but i'd rather have weathered painted wood.

my most expressionist work was a brackish aquarium with trash in it - broken bottles and cans and such, which is how most estuaries look these days. i used fiddler crabs, sundust mollies and bumblebee gobies. the fish were ecstatic and totally healthy. the point was the power of nature to overcome adversity, and to show that 'natural' is a human construct that has no meaning to fish. but i learned aquascaping from reading takashi amano's Nature World Aquarium, which every bonsai fan should see.

i learned as an ecologist that nature isn't something separate from humans. our cities are as natural as beaver damns. we evolved the ability to build them through cultural evolution (dual inheritance theory)

 

[amcoffeegirl]

Do you have any bonsai currently?
What trees do you like or what would grow well in your area?
It feels like you have a lot going on in your biotope terrarium if you had the most beautiful bonsai ever in there the magic of the tree may be lost in the clutter.
Bonsai should be displayed to enhance the beauty of the tree.
However if it makes you happy then go for it.
I am a big fan of ficus and they may grow in a well vented terrarium.
No trees that I know of will grow well with consistently wet roots.
Good luck
Post pics of your trees when you can

 

[M. Frary]

Is this expressionistic?

Stupidism!

 

[sorce]

i'm building an expressionist aquarium as a hearth shrine for my dead mother. she loved roses and hummingbirds so i'm taking grapevine and training Anubias spp and Java Fern to it, like leaves. then i'll buy one clear and one stained glass rose to go on the bush. to compliment this, i'll suspend two glass hummingbirds, one clear, one stained, life and afterlife. i'll use Endler's, a kind of tie-dyed hippie guppy, as the dither fish, meaning those that wander around aimlessly in the midspace. i have a glass dish with a blue glass lid that belonged to my mother's mother - i'll grow a waterlily in it, if i can find a viable bulb. well, i'm building the ecosystem now - its in a 20gal. i use non-destructive water flow generators only, so if you turn them off and wait for a while, you can see the meiofauna, like daphnia and hydras. today i'm going to add 3 kuhlie loaches, which selectively eat tiny snails and dig around in the sand, for aeration. they're cute as bug's shirt, too, and i've had them sneak off and breed before. anyway, this is meant as a response to the above.

Love it!
I got 5 khulis, and 12 clown loaches.

Pics?

I totally appreciate your visions, and I think whatever you put together will be interesting at least!

Yes to Crazy, Welcome!

Sorce

 

[ABCarve]

Go to http://langbonsai.com/insites/Bonsai_in_Sites_Catalog.pdf Ceramic artists meets bonsai

 

[M. Frary]

Is this expressionistic?

The "tree" would have a branch growing out of his ass if I had my way. Make it look like a rocket plume. The F.T.D. man could look even more stupid.
I don't like Penelope either but that's me and she is the best one out of the bunch. Something like that could actually happen in nature. All of the rest are just plain ludicrous.

 

[tantric]

okay, a bit of preaching from an ecologist - nature isn't something that is separate from humans. how is a beaver damn different from NYC? our technology is a product of evolution, cultural evolution (dual inheritance theory). when i built an estuary aquarium and included bits of garbage, who did it bother - the people looking at it or the fish? the fish loved it, because i know what they need. the bred and thrived, showing how nature overcomes pollution. what do you think is natural? north america? where are the mammoths and the cave bears? every ecosystem on this planet has been shaped by human kind. this is our garden, we either tend it or let it run wild. (not that i'm against parks and such, love them, but you need to keep perspective).

 

[tantric]

this is my father's butterbean tree, a half dead old pear he uses as a scaffold for his beans and a compost heap. by midsummer, it will be lush with butterbeans. i find it beautiful and inspiring.

 

[M. Frary]

okay, a bit of preaching from an ecologist - nature isn't something that is separate from humans. how is a beaver damn different from NYC? our technology is a product of evolution, cultural evolution (dual inheritance theory). when i built an estuary aquarium and included bits of garbage, who did it bother - the people looking at it or the fish? the fish loved it, because i know what they need. the bred and thrived, showing how nature overcomes pollution. what do you think is natural? north america? where are the mammoths and the cave bears? every ecosystem on this planet has been shaped by human kind. this is our garden, we either tend it or let it run wild. (not that i'm against parks and such, love them, but you need to keep perspective).

Nah. We're just a pimple on an elephants ass. We've only been here for a mere speck of time. We think we own and shape the world but we dont.
Pretty soon something will wipe all of us out and things will start over. It's happened before and will again.
It was fish first. Then the dinosaurs. Now it's the mammals turn. My guess the next things to rule the earth will be insects. They need their turn.
Dung beetles in charge!

 

[tantric]

Nah. We're just a pimple on an elephants ass. We've only been here for a mere speck of time. We think we own and shape the world but we dont.
Pretty soon something will wipe all of us out and things will start over. It's happened before and will again.
It was fish first. Then the dinosaurs. Now it's the mammals turn. My guess the next things to rule the earth will be insects. They need their turn.
Dung beetles in charge!

i can't tell if you're being sarcastic....well, gives me another excuse to preach

humans are something different. other species have cultural evolution - whale migration patterns are classical. but human have evolved genetically to maximize cultural evolution. altruism is normally seen in highly intelligent animals (though, oddly, also in vampire bats). in humans, this instinct has allowed us to create mutualistic relationships with new species - the plants and animals of the agricultural revolution. then we evolved culturally so that we could manipulate those species genetically, though artificial selection. humans are not one species anymore - that ended with the neolithic. we are the speices complex of us and all our domestic and peridomestic species. mutualism is one of the most powerful forces in nature. the coral reefs with their symbiotic algae control a huge part of the ocean, and the land is dominated by flowering plants and their pollinators. don't forest the forests and their mychorhizzae. and now us (and we've domesticated both coral and flowers). the chloroplasts and mitochondria in our cells, the bacteria in our guts, it's a dance of relationships blending into new organisms.

it's fairly valid to predict that humanity will some day include every remaining (!!) species on the planet in this network. the new human race will be the earth's biosphere. and now, our cultural evolution has given us the tools to directly write our genetic evolution. this is part of the philosophy of Teilhard de Chardin, a jesuit palaeontologist who, in a sense, predicted the internet. he taught that humanity would evolve into godhead, a living, thinking planet. i'm not sure about that, but i do believe it's our destiny to carry life to the dead worlds and make them live. we've been dropping bacterial laden meteorites on other planets/moons for 50 years, so, it's begun.

i know it's crazy, but isn't it better than 'we mean nothing' - and a lot more realistic.....

 

[jk_lewis]

We think we own and shape the world but we dont.

Oh but we do. Human beings are he greatest (and most dire) geological force that has ever existed.

 

[ABCarve]

Which one do you like the most?

 

[jk_lewis]

They all look alike!

 

[M. Frary]

I'm sticking to my original post. History repeats itself. We humans think we run the world. We're just leasing the land . Evolution of our species doesn't mean crap when a giant asteroid hits.
Or maybe the aliens up there will save us?
Oh wait a minute! I just reread your reply. I get to be a God. That changes everything!
Hooey !
And by the way. Do you even have a tree? It's a bonsai forum after all.

 

[ABCarve]

I asked the question with tongue in cheek. From a distance, they do look all alike. The ubiquitous bonsai gracing our garden centers and malls. They difference between is one of them is "our" bonsai. We inflict our individualistic will and aesthetics on to each we have. The point of it is to make us smile or not. Does it project our intent or function? Many of us simply want to mimic was "has been" or another's vision and other look for something new. We can argue the point of "what is bonsai" and this site has done quite a bit of that. One thing is for certain bonsai has changed in 500 years of evolution and it will continue to change whether you like it or not.

 

[Cypress187]

I will probably also make some non-traditional bonsai in the near future. My (red-barked) dogwood is totally non suitable for traditional bonsai, and im considering making some sort of spiral or whirlwind branching/rammification with it.


Edit: It's not suitable because it has huge internodes, big leaves and straight branches. (And that's not my picture it from the guy who put the "unathorized use prohibited" sign on it).

 

[A Random User]

This is an interesting subject and I agree with alot and of course disagree with some of what has been said.

My own personal take would be two fold.
First Bonsai is an art form... we are taking a plant past the stages of just horticulture. .. it is not meant to necessarily be tranquil or pleasant. Art is about expression of one's views, emotions, feelings and interpretations of how one views the world. For some this view might be tranquil, for others it might appear chaotic. This is often reflected on our trees, one might have a tree such as a maple that for the most part has had a very pleasant life and will reflect this, while on the other hand one might have a very twisted contorted juniper, that has had a very chaotic life and in this instance, one would not want the tree to feel pleasant, seeing that this would defeat the point.

With that said... I agree that one regardless of what type of tree or how crazy they want to make a tree, it is important that they first learn how to create a "normal" tree, and learn the basic fundamentals required of doing so. One needs to still understand these basics in order to create the crazy bonsai. Right? One still needs to know the rules in order to be able to break the rules.

Now with that said, I personally believe that the avant garde trees have a place in bonsai, for they are still art and for the most part still trees in a pot, which is what bonsai is. Good or bad... or what the observer of such a tree might think of them.

However, just as with any art, I feel that avant garde art, is more about making a statement, seeing that this is the top priority of it, and the art sometimes takes a back seat. For this type of art is often created in the hopes of purposely not trying to adhere to the rules set aside for the art, and more about pushing the boundaries and these rules. Which for me is fine, it opens up new avenues to explore and be creative... but, where my own personal issues would lie would be, is one just creating a weird piece of art just to be weird? And then how does one put a merit on such a piece as to whether it is good or bad art? Are we now suppose to appreciate golf balls stuck between trunks as one often sees at big box stores? And when do these type of trees become just a gimmick, intent on just try to be bizarre and shock.

So, for me personally, I would have to say that I think it is fine to try and push boundaries, not every tree needs to conform to the laws of nature, often this can be an "interpretation" of these laws... and can stretch the imagination of the observer as I do believe my campachee that I posted does... it makes one wonder what if? And, if it is possible that one might find a tree such as this... however, it still resembles a tree, and still should in my opinion have the feeling that when finished, that a human was not involved in it's creation. Seeing that this would be one of the basic principals of bonsai. Unless of course wants to just throw this out the window... then the tree is now more about oneself than the tree?

 

[tantric]

before i read the above, i was thinking of how my father's butterbean tree looks like the Whomping Willow in harry potter.

i'd like to apologize a bit for stirring this up. i'm just starting, and i have many, many traditional bonsai to create in the process of learning the art before i'd attempt something outre. but whenever i investigate a new art, i'm flooded with ideas, like a kid with a new toy. very few ever go to completion, and those never resemble the original idea. i do think when i do my first roots over rock i'll use the busted red brick, though - it would be very zen. if it helps, i'm a ferret person. when i find something new, i get excited and jump around like a lunatic

on the other hand, what do y'all think of mambonsai?



me? wow, japanese people can be tacky, too, what a shock! kawaii desu-ne????

 

[grouper52]

Overseas for a while, come back, log in: Unprecedented level of narcissism displayed by some very full-of-himself newby/nonby . . .

World-class yawn to you, buddy - post us a tree if you ever make one.

G'night all.

 

[ABCarve]

Tantric
I admire your enthusiasm. You bring a unique set of experiences to fuse with bonsai or maybe mambonsai. I'm sure what you make will be unique.