New Young Jbp help

[Adair M]

Or...

Plant it on a tile (so that the roots grow OUT instead of DOWN) in a collandar, and place the collandar in the ground! Surrounded by bonsai soil.

Growing in the ground does have it's advantages. One is that the temperature of the soil does not heat up and cool as rapidly as it does in a pot. The moisture level is more consistent. More "natural" for the tree.

Or: plant some in the ground, some in collandars. Find out which method works best for you!

 

[Vance Wood]

Or...

Plant it on a tile (so that the roots grow OUT instead of DOWN) in a collandar, and place the collandar in the ground! Surrounded by bonsai soil.

Growing in the ground does have it's advantages. One is that the temperature of the soil does not heat up and cool as rapidly as it does in a pot. The moisture level is more consistent. More "natural" for the tree.

Or: plant some in the ground, some in collandars. Find out which method works best for you!

With all due respects putting a tree in a colander and then planting in the ground defeats the prime reason of putting the tree in a screened environment; that of setting up a condition for air pruning to take place, and the fine roots that process can stimulate by not allowing any root to go beyond peramaters as defined by the colander. Instead the roots are forced to branch out which produces nothing but fine feeder roots. In the ground all the colander can provide for you is an easier way to prune the roots when that must take place.

 

[Adair M]

Vance,

No boubt colander growing would produce a better root system. If that's the goal.

Growing in the ground produces a lot more trunk and top growth.

 

[Vance Wood]

I know that's the conventional thinking but the truth is not supported by the results. A collander, Bonsai Training Planter, or a pond basket will allow the tree to grow freely as well, with a good deal more compact growth. Maybe a hair slower but the tree will get there just the same.

I have been growing trees like this for over twenty years and the results are as I have described.

 

[garywood]

I don 't want to get involved in a pi!@@#$#$%% contest here but the two growing conditions are not comparable as far as growth is the measure.In the ground always wins. But, what is the objective? What is the envisioned tree? What is the expected development time? I don't understand giving answers when the question hasn't been asked. Margaritaville is here so please forgive

 

[Vance Wood]

I don 't want to get involved in a pi!@@#$#$%% contest here but the two growing conditions are not comparable as far as growth is the measure.In the ground always wins. But, what is the objective? What is the envisioned tree? What is the expected development time? I don't understand giving answers when the question hasn't been asked. Margaritaville is here so please forgive

You know this from experience growing both ways, or are you quoting what you have been told, or are you just making an assumption that there is no way a container of any kind can promote the same results as growing in the ground? I too do not wish a p----g contest, I am curious as to the basis of your assertion.

A good portion of my last 35 years has been involved in doing things that are contrary to traditional assumptions as to how bonsai should be grown.

 

[Adair M]

Vance,

Check out this thread from another bonsai forum. Near the end of the discussion, growing in the ground vs colanders comes up.

Frank Kroeker tried both ways, at the same time, and he shows side by side pictures comparing the results. See for youself:

http://bonsaistudygroup.com/shimpaku-juniper-discussion/jim-gremel's-shimpaku/

The thread start off discussing shimpaku, at the end it's JBP.

 

[GrimLore]

I seem to do ok with starting Maples, Pines, Cypress and Oaks outdoors by digging a trench a foot deep and wide for the lenght I need to plant each 1 foot apart. I line the trench with the black cloth used to prevent weeds and fill it with decent soil. That cloth has been real good at keeping the roots in the trench so far. Also being in PA it gives me the ability to give those saplings real good soil rather then clay. Basically it makes an in ground pot without the pot

Never have started tropicals outdoors although we have several different Ficus purchased very young and they do well as long as I get them inside early enough and under light 16 hours a day. The newer lights are real easy on electric my 2 footers only use 17 watts

 

[Nybonsai12]

Very interesting stuff. Since I have a few very small JBP coming to me i could always do a little experiment of my own. Some in colanders and some in the ground.

For those that put in the ground i assume you are just putting it in the dirt that is on your property and not burying it in bonsai soil. Correct? and then use a 10-10-10 fert when applicable or fertilizer cakes or both?

For those putting in colanders, what is your soil mix?

Thanks again for the replies. OP didn't mean to thread jack.

 

[cmeg1]

"for those putting in colanders,what is your soil mix?"

With the colanders I have ,about ten growing pines,I would love to use a more open mix,but fact is,I can't.My pines would die cause' they would dry out when I work.I use a mix of 1 part dyna-rok to 2 parts quality potting soil.The dyna-rok is 2-7mm size.The 2/3 potting soil proved to be absolutely essential cause' of the heat this past summer.I would give them water just in time when I got home from work.They are growing quite healthy.
I cannot use organic fertilizer with my soil mix.It makes the soil to thick and get's hard to water.When I use dyna-gro there is no drainage problems at all.
Now with my soil mix,I decided that it stay's wet to long in winter cold,so I built rain protection with clear poly-carb top.Problem solved.I left a picture of my table I built.Bought the poly-carb at Lowes.

 

[cmeg1]

When it comes to ground growing ,all I ever got was 2 foot long tap roots that invited disease when cut.Now...I am not professional.Growing on tiles seemed good advice.Perhaps you only get the 2 foot tap roots when you plant seedlings in the ground.Knowing how to grow in the ground is probably what seperates the men from the boy's.It is obviously being done correctly elsewhere.

 

[GrimLore]

Very interesting stuff. Since I have a few very small JBP coming to me i could always do a little experiment of my own. Some in colanders and some in the ground.

For those that put in the ground i assume you are just putting it in the dirt that is on your property and not burying it in bonsai soil. Correct? and then use a 10-10-10 fert when applicable or fertilizer cakes or both?

For those putting in colanders, what is your soil mix?

Thanks again for the replies. OP didn't mean to thread jack.

I have the option here and for the most part PA soil is clay so I just dig down about a foot and a foot wide most times six foot long. I line the trench with black weed matting and fill it with topsoil from the local Agway. I plant all the saplings and in the winter I use pure pine horse bedding as mulch going about 2 inches above the base of the trees. It is very uncommon for the area I am in to have a severe winter so only a few plants get special teatment with a windbreak of burlap.

The only thing we do indoors here really is house the tropicals for the winter.