New Young Jbp help
- Thread starter robh72
- Start date
Well, they're really young. The wire is already cuting in. You can leave it or remove it. If you leave it in, it will always show a spiral pattern on the bark. If you remove it, you'll have "wire marks for a few years, then they should go away as true bark develops.
JBP bonsai usually have powerful trunks. To get those trunks, most JBP bonsai are left to grow unimpeded for several years. However, there are things you can do to vastly improve the bonsai material you will have in, say, 5 years. Such as grow in a collendar, or collendar in collendar to develop nebari. Slant the tree so that it doesn't come up straight out of the soil. Things like that.
I would get the book "Pines" from Stone Lantern press. They have articles on how to grow JBP from seed. You can see how they do it, and try to match your trees to their program.
Meanwhile, get yourself some larger JBP stock to work with. These need to GROW for several years. More advanced material will allow you to learn JBP techniques. (Your trees are too young to do things like needle pulling, and decandling which really make JBP bonsai look finished.
JBP bonsai usually have powerful trunks. To get those trunks, most JBP bonsai are left to grow unimpeded for several years. However, there are things you can do to vastly improve the bonsai material you will have in, say, 5 years. Such as grow in a collendar, or collendar in collendar to develop nebari. Slant the tree so that it doesn't come up straight out of the soil. Things like that.
I would get the book "Pines" from Stone Lantern press. They have articles on how to grow JBP from seed. You can see how they do it, and try to match your trees to their program.
Meanwhile, get yourself some larger JBP stock to work with. These need to GROW for several years. More advanced material will allow you to learn JBP techniques. (Your trees are too young to do things like needle pulling, and decandling which really make JBP bonsai look finished.
robh72
Seedling
Thanks for the advice. Im looking forward to there growth. Ive always wanted jbp and was luky to get these. I have a few junipers and a chinese elm. Im going to start looking for an older jbp. Any suggestions of where to look?
jkd2572
Masterpiece
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9052-Black-pine-from-Telperion-farms
This guy has some nice stuff and is easy to work with.
jkd2572
Masterpiece
If your looking for some less expensive options muranaka nursery sells $100 stock on eBay.
robh72
Seedling
Ill take a look at both options. Thank you very much.
robh72
Seedling
Birthday coming up thursday, looks like ill be picking out a new Jbp!
tmmason10
Omono
i think a jbp is a great choice. I've had mine since March and really think they are a rewarding species to work with.
robh72
Seedling
I recently have gotten into bonsai the past few months. I was hospitalized for a few weeks and it was the first time i had been that sick. So being at home the past month and a half i picked up Bonsai and its like nothing else. Makes really happy! I for sure need to add an older Jbp. Just a little nervous because ive read they arent for the beginner.
tmmason10
Omono
Honestly I think it's not considered a beginner tree because there are specialized procedures and things to do at certain times. They are very vigorous and forgiving for the most part though.
One reason JBP aren't considered "beginner" is due to the fact that decent stock needs to be raised for bonsai rather than landscape use, which makes it more expensive.
Consider: A trident maple trunk can be cut back, and every limb removed. It will pop new buds, and tree can be rebuild. Do that to a JBP and you've created firewood.
To have a nice JBP, we want both a heavy trunk, and branches with foliage close to the trunk. Generally speaking, to get the heavy trunk, you have to let branches grow. This creates rank growth way out on the ends of the branches! So, it appears to be a catch-22, you can get one or the other.
Of course, that's the challenge! We want both! Therein lies the satisfaction of developing JBP.
Consider: A trident maple trunk can be cut back, and every limb removed. It will pop new buds, and tree can be rebuild. Do that to a JBP and you've created firewood.
To have a nice JBP, we want both a heavy trunk, and branches with foliage close to the trunk. Generally speaking, to get the heavy trunk, you have to let branches grow. This creates rank growth way out on the ends of the branches! So, it appears to be a catch-22, you can get one or the other.
Of course, that's the challenge! We want both! Therein lies the satisfaction of developing JBP.
robh72
Seedling
Well im glad to be able to let them grow. Ill be doing more research and see if im ready to give it a go with older stock.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Like Adair said,I too would strongly reccommend the 'Pines' book from stonelantern.
It took me two growing seasons to understand JBP better.The Pines book got me off to a understandable start.My first pine I bought was a two year graft and I started to train it right away.Knowing what I know now I'd rather grow JBP out in colanders ,letting the leader grow out wild for bigger,squat trunk while preserving and growing the low final branches,which I am currently doing with most of my seedlings and grafts.That is basically the method the 'Pines ' book teaches for JBP from seed.After a season or two with a JBP,it becomes a no-brainer.And I can always let the seedlings and grafts I trained (instantly) grow out in colanders if I wanted to.
Have great fun! And,oh yea, you could alway's start training your seedlings whilst you purchase or grow bigger stock.That is what I did.And then when you understand your seedlings ,after a year or two, just force some low buds from a Fall pruning and then let the leaders go wild in a colander method.
It took me two growing seasons to understand JBP better.The Pines book got me off to a understandable start.My first pine I bought was a two year graft and I started to train it right away.Knowing what I know now I'd rather grow JBP out in colanders ,letting the leader grow out wild for bigger,squat trunk while preserving and growing the low final branches,which I am currently doing with most of my seedlings and grafts.That is basically the method the 'Pines ' book teaches for JBP from seed.After a season or two with a JBP,it becomes a no-brainer.And I can always let the seedlings and grafts I trained (instantly) grow out in colanders if I wanted to.
Have great fun! And,oh yea, you could alway's start training your seedlings whilst you purchase or grow bigger stock.That is what I did.And then when you understand your seedlings ,after a year or two, just force some low buds from a Fall pruning and then let the leaders go wild in a colander method.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Pines in general are not for the most part considered beginner trees. Not so much that they are difficult to grow, but that there are so many specialized techniques involved in their care and development to such a degree that advanced growers will argue over the finer points.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Another thing for you to consider. Because JBP's tend to have great trunks with great bark you should consider the growing out advice you received earlier. Be advised that the branches you are looking at today will probably not be there in a couple of years. One of these branches will most likely become the new top of the tree because you will have to cut the tree back in order to create taper. The bend is fine and a good start----for the base of the tree. The rest of the tree, as it is now, is nothing more than a source for a new top and a couple of sacrifice branches used to thicken the base of the trunk.
You are at a point with these trees where it is really more like baking a cake than designing a bonsai. Start with this, grow out for a while, cut this, grow out for a while till it is done, cut that, grow out for a while till that's done and in a few cycles you will start to see the beginnings of a pretty good bonsai-----just about the same time you start to understand what you are doing. It don't get no better than this---really;--- enjoy the trip.
You are at a point with these trees where it is really more like baking a cake than designing a bonsai. Start with this, grow out for a while, cut this, grow out for a while till it is done, cut that, grow out for a while till that's done and in a few cycles you will start to see the beginnings of a pretty good bonsai-----just about the same time you start to understand what you are doing. It don't get no better than this---really;--- enjoy the trip.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Really good analogy Vance, baking a cake... True that.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
When I posted those comments I was afraid my analogy would be taken as sarcasm. Nothing could be farther from the truth. What I have had to learn the hard way, after years of disappointing results at times, was shared accurately, and seriously.
Nybonsai12
Masterpiece
Just so I am understanding, at this time would in order to let it grow would it do better in a colander or just putting in the ground. I have some young JBP on the way to me and always thought putting in the ground was the way to go in order to achieve the best growth results.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Colander or pond basket, anything with perforated sides and bottoms. This allows almost unlimited vegetive growth without causing the roots to circle the outside of the pot, or grow unhindered in the ground necessitating the cutting of roots to avoid one or two dominant roots taking off to parts unknown.
