New Acer Palmatum, beginner advice

[drew33998]

Let it grow through this year. During late fall cut branches back the two alternating branches that are closest to the trunk. You may also elect to wire it this winter when the leaves are off the tree. Be aware that if you wire it you will have to take it off and reapply every 3-4 weeks or just as it looks like it is biting in in the spring

 

[MACH5]

Conor is very tough, if not impossible, to give you design advice when a maple is full of leaves. I would wait and then post when the tree is bare. Some folks like to work a maple to look good only when in leaf. I believe you should always work towards a sound leafless structure before you think about anything else.

 

[ConorDash]

Er...

That's a fair price from a tree bought from a website. It has some potential.

I think that you can evaluate a deciduous tree when it's leafless, in the winter. That's when you can see which branches to prune or keep.

So for the moment I would just make sure it keeps healthy.

PS: if you want to get some more trees next autumn, just PM me. I have a good friend who's a part-time bonsai nurseryman, he has cheap very good trees, and shipping from France to the UK is very reasonable - so far!

That's ok, if it's a fair price then I'm happy. I'll do that
Thank you, I'll keep that in mind Alain, I will probably get more, as they take a long time to develop, I think it best k have multiple at once. If you vouch for the guy, I'm sure he is fine to do business with .

In the way that the lowest branch contributes to the canopy in this jap maple by Harry H. (I think) yes it would contribute to the canopy. The purpose of the guy wire or regular wire would be to lower the branch. I think keeping the branch would ultimately help make a smaller more convincing tree. Although if you take the branch off, you could still have a nice tree, just a taller one.
View attachment 108002

Yeah, ok just wanted to make sure I understood . With a lot of people's advice, I need to clarify cos I'm a beginner so it's good to know what the aim is of the advice. I'd rather keep the branch.

We will see, but custom taxes for the goods imported into EU must raise the final prices. Fortunately we have enough good shops and b. nurseries in surrounding countries and in Germany for instance.

@ConorDash , the price you paid is fair. Learn how to keep the tree happy, watch how it grows for the first year. It will need some light protection from the frost and excessive soil humidity in the winter. You don't have to deal with the idea of root grafting till the first repotting. Nobody knows what can be revealed under the substrate...

I have read up on the winter care. The main advice which I think I will closely look at is giving it just the right amount of water. The less water they have the better during winter, but of course, enough to allow them to live. The winters in UK won't go below -3 or -4 and my Chinese elm and maple can withstand lower. I've also got a garage so once they have entered dormancy, I can happily put them in there to keep them above freezing and away from rains or high winds, which are my second biggest concern.
I'm very worried about the winter, as its my first so I'll do a lot of reading on it. Thanks for your comment.

 

[ConorDash]

Let it grow through this year. During late fall cut branches back the two alternating branches that are closest to the trunk. You may also elect to wire it this winter when the leaves are off the tree. Be aware that if you wire it you will have to take it off and reapply every 3-4 weeks or just as it looks like it is biting in in the spring

Interesting. I would have thought that once the wire is applied, then taken off, you don't again for a longer time.
Do you mean to reapply shortly afterwards due to the wire biting too quickly? As I would guess after 3-4 weeks, the wire will not have done its job yet.
One things for sure, I'm gonna need more wire... Seems like it'll take a lot of wire for that tree.

Conor is very tough, if not impossible, to give you design advice when a maple is full of leaves. I would wait and then post when the tree is bare. Some folks like to work a maple to look good only when in leaf. I believe you should always work towards a sound leafless structure before you think about anything else.

I understand. I will do that . Of course, your bones shape your body, same with branches on a tree. Thanks.

 

[ConorDash]

Another opportunity to make someone hate me:

http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.c...-jm-please-not-the-three-letter-abbrev.16842/

Hey, don't put the blame on me, I just read the recommandations on that forum, I'm still trying to learn...

Someone on that thread said no to JM because it could be abbreviation for Jedi Master lol.... Ok, was that topic for real.. It all seemed so serious.. The Jedi master guy could only have been joking, that cannot be serious.

 

[drew33998]

Mach5 can explain on the wiring. Yes the idea is that if you let it cut in too much it will take a long time if ever to fix the damage. That's why you have to take it off and rewire it.

 

[ConorDash]

Mach5 can explain on the wiring. Yes the idea is that if you let it cut in too much it will take a long time if ever to fix the damage. That's why you have to take it off and rewire it.

Oh yeh I understand that concept.
I just thought that the wire would have done its job if it gets it the point of biting in.
I wouldn't expect that it'd bite in to the bark, before having done its job.

 

[AlainK]

that cannot be serious.

It is. Or it could be. It shouldn't, or perhaps it might.
How relative references are... Bad day at black rock! I can't see!

 

[sorce]

I totally agree with mach5 on the styling bare.

The following is more to keep your potential problems at bay...PPB!

Green is good...I'd cut the red now...


From right to left...

The right branch is a sure keeper...
If only to keep fattening the trunk.
But could also be well used later.

The open green circle...good branch...but the 4 way is bad...I'd keep the strong ones for vigor....and it's a low branch...so you want it larger.

The red circle Seems to be coming from the inside of the bend....that is gonna make it look shitty there...maybe reverse taper....or kill your transition.

The red line below that....that branch is just too weak too keep IMO.

The green line should be left healthy....that is a key branch....
Also lower, so Cutting back to those first two nodes should not be done till it is of the right size. Definitely not fall. It will pop buds there later.

The vertical red line...
It could be cut or left a while....
I'd cut it to keep light to that big one and it's first node.

It looks like you have a lot more things to address above...in the yellow circle...

Things stemming from the same...
Chopped and forgotten.
Not that this is bad...it gives you options..and things to do!

I would follow the same concept up there...removing inside the bend branches....and any shitty 4 ways...etc..

This will clear some light for the low stuff which has to catch up.

Like the branch that is coming from the continuation of the left line of the yellow circle...looks real close to the other ones base...
Needs to be wired into a better position...
If removing the heavier part there is a future possibility....
Or cut off of you are pleased with the heavier continuation.
I would cut it off....as that continuation looks good from here...

F thread grafting roots for a while.

Rid yourself of problems that are going to f you first.....
And that's it this year...

Show it to Mach5 when it's naked....
Mach5 is the man!

Sorce

 

[Vin]

Another opportunity to make someone hate me:

http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.c...-jm-please-not-the-three-letter-abbrev.16842/

Hey, don't put the blame on me, I just read the recommandations on that forum, I'm still trying to learn...

No hating from me. I never use the three letter Abbreviation.

 

[ConorDash]

I totally agree with mach5 on the styling bare.

The following is more to keep your potential problems at bay...PPB!

Green is good...I'd cut the red now...
View attachment 108019

From right to left...

The right branch is a sure keeper...
If only to keep fattening the trunk.
But could also be well used later.

The open green circle...good branch...but the 4 way is bad...I'd keep the strong ones for vigor....and it's a low branch...so you want it larger.

The red circle Seems to be coming from the inside of the bend....that is gonna make it look shitty there...maybe reverse taper....or kill your transition.

The red line below that....that branch is just too weak too keep IMO.

The green line should be left healthy....that is a key branch....
Also lower, so Cutting back to those first two nodes should not be done till it is of the right size. Definitely not fall. It will pop buds there later.

The vertical red line...
It could be cut or left a while....
I'd cut it to keep light to that big one and it's first node.

It looks like you have a lot more things to address above...in the yellow circle...

Things stemming from the same...
Chopped and forgotten.
Not that this is bad...it gives you options..and things to do!

I would follow the same concept up there...removing inside the bend branches....and any shitty 4 ways...etc..

This will clear some light for the low stuff which has to catch up.

Like the branch that is coming from the continuation of the left line of the yellow circle...looks real close to the other ones base...
Needs to be wired into a better position...
If removing the heavier part there is a future possibility....
Or cut off of you are pleased with the heavier continuation.
I would cut it off....as that continuation looks good from here...

F thread grafting roots for a while.

Rid yourself of problems that are going to f you first.....
And that's it this year...

Show it to Mach5 when it's naked....
Mach5 is the man!

Sorce

Wow that's some very good info, and diagram explanation . Very good thank you. Yes I'll certainly go through your advice and pic, when it's a little more naked and make adjustments. Also put up a pic when it is.
I like your explanation cos it helps visualise exactly why I'd get rid of said branch etc. Helps a lot with learning. People never learn when told what to do, because they don't develop the reasoning for why they are doing it. Then once one has learnt, they can start to form their own opinion as to how keeping or chopping something, will help or hinder their tree or what can be done if something is kept..
Anyways, thank you

 

[sorce]

when it's a little more naked

Most of that stuff you would want to do now.

Those are problems that could ruin your tree by fall.

The only maybes would be the ones that "seem" to be coming from the inside of that bend....and the one right next to the big one by the chop, as that one could help it heal....but I figure that big branch will do a better job....and if you wait to cut it....you just got another big Hole to heal!

Do this now...
And you may even get some more good buds to pop for the growing season.

And if you go ahead and do it yourself up through the top.....I doubt you'll lose anything very valuable, as it seems to like growing new branches right at cuts and branch bases....
Which is an excellent way to make "diner branching", especially in the apex....

Just remember, thicker at the bottom...
Thinner at the top....
And prune accordingly.

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

Most of that stuff you would want to do now.

Those are problems that could ruin your tree by fall.

The only maybes would be the ones that "seem" to be coming from the inside of that bend....and the one right next to the big one by the chop, as that one could help it heal....but I figure that big branch will do a better job....and if you wait to cut it....you just got another big Hole to heal!

Do this now...
And you may even get some more good buds to pop for the growing season.

And if you go ahead and do it yourself up through the top.....I doubt you'll lose anything very valuable, as it seems to like growing new branches right at cuts and branch bases....
Which is an excellent way to make "diner branching", especially in the apex....

Just remember, thicker at the bottom...
Thinner at the top....
And prune accordingly.

Sorce

Ok fair enough. I'll have a good look and make sure I understand your suggestions, most of them I do, just a few it's a little difficult to understand lol. I'll look at that and get to you .

I thought to not make any adjustments within the first 2 weeks of transport but it spent such little time in transport, it's not needed to have been repotted and it looks healthy, currently good weather with sun and rain so I guess there's no need to wait.

 

[sorce]

Ok fair enough. I'll have a good look and make sure I understand your suggestions, most of them I do, just a few it's a little difficult to understand lol. I'll look at that and get to you .

I thought to not make any adjustments within the first 2 weeks of transport but it spent such little time in transport, it's not needed to have been repotted and it looks healthy, currently good weather with sun and rain so I guess there's no need to wait.

I like that!

Looks healthy enough...and you ain't removing much.

It would be nice to hear someone with a bit more experience agree....
Maybe get a @BobbyLane opinion...as he is familiar with Kaizan material...
But I reckon it's healthy!

Sorce

 

[ConorDash]

I like that!

Looks healthy enough...and you ain't removing much.

It would be nice to hear someone with a bit more experience agree....
Maybe get a @BobbyLane opinion...as he is familiar with Kaizan material...
But I reckon it's healthy!

Sorce

@BobbyLane Sorce has named you as the man with the advice.. Know much in the way of Maples? .

 

[BobbyLane]

Hi Coner, im no expert on maples tbh, i bought two field maples last winter and had my Trident less than two years. there are others here who could advise you far better. tbh all you should be doing now is letting it grow, give it a light prune here and there, only at leaf drop will you be able to assess the structure properly and see what if any major branch removal needs to be done. just enjoy its image for now, thats what im doing with my Elm. buy some garden centre material to practice on

Ps its much more fun buying most of your deciduous trees in winter

 

[rockm]

I would definitely hold off on hard pruning now. Save any of that until next spring. This is a pretty good piece of material that you will be doing some substantial damage too that could take a decade to grow out if you do it wrong

One of the worst things beginners do is get a tree and immediately "do something" to it just because it's new. You will regret it.

Learn how to water it--fertilize it and store for the winter. Learning all that is not as straightforward as it seems.

If you have to ask how to prune and where to prune, it's too early for you to prune the tree for the most part. This will become more evident once the leaves fall in the autumn. Most of this tree's flaws will be visible then. Deciduous trees don't lie in their structure, like pines do, since the foliage that hides mistakes falls away from deciduous tree every year. Want to see how proficient a bonsaiist is? Look at his/her deciduous trees in winter...do they look like actual trees, or contrived and ridiculous?

 

[ConorDash]

Hi Coner, im no expert on maples tbh, i bought two field maples last winter and had my Trident less than two years. there are others here who could advise you far better. tbh all you should be doing now is letting it grow, give it a light prune here and there, only at leaf drop will you be able to assess the structure properly and see what if any major branch removal needs to be done. just enjoy its image for now, thats what im doing with my Elm. buy some garden centre material to practice on

Ps its much more fun buying most of your deciduous trees in winter

I would definitely hold off on hard pruning now. Save any of that until next spring. This is a pretty good piece of material that you will be doing some substantial damage too that could take a decade to grow out if you do it wrong

One of the worst things beginners do is get a tree and immediately "do something" to it just because it's new. You will regret it.

Learn how to water it--fertilize it and store for the winter. Learning all that is not as straightforward as it seems.

If you have to ask how to prune and where to prune, it's too early for you to prune the tree for the most part. This will become more evident once the leaves fall in the autumn. Most of this tree's flaws will be visible then. Deciduous trees don't lie in their structure, like pines do, since the foliage that hides mistakes falls away from deciduous tree every year. Want to see how proficient a bonsaiist is? Look at his/her deciduous trees in winter...do they look like actual trees, or contrived and ridiculous?

Thanks guys. Appreciate it. I certainly agree as I'm currently put off by the fact that the mix is new to me and I can hardly even tell when it needs watering! Which seems so silly and beginner-like. And the heavy rain I've had, I thought would water it but I'm pretty sure due to the large canopy cover, none of the water is reaching the soil.
But it's happy at the moment, I believe. I do look forward to leaf fall, to see what's what.