Neli's Box Store Challenge Tree Critique

[Neli]

Sorry Darlene, I added some more text to your quote...It was Oyakata who did the demo...we were holding the pot vertical while he was wiring and bending it and assisting him...the way a surgeon is assisted...while running around like robots, but trying to anticipate what will be the next demand.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Sorry Darlene, I added some more text to your quote...It was Oyakata who did the demo...we were holding the pot vertical while he was wiring and bending it and assisting him...the way a surgeon is assisted...while running around like robots, but trying to anticipate what will be the next demand.

Ahhh I see. That would have been interesting to just sit back and watch the action! Thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

[Neli]

I can tell you that the first thing we were asked to do by Oyakata for all trees is a virtual...
Probably it will be a good learning experience for the next competition that all entrants are asked to submit a virtual of what they are trying to achieve.
Next: a consideration needs to be given of the tree the entrants had to work with...There are trees that are ready for styling and there are trees that need to go over so many stages of development and styling before the real pad styling commences.
In this competition the material was very young and this was its first styling...
I want you to see how the fist styling on trees in Japan is done and on trees that have a good trunk and now the branch development is starting.
The thing that really shocked me at first was how most of the branches were cut off. As I progressed I was given yamadori to style...those were actually massacred.
The usual procedure was:
Bonsai mama which one you like as the front?
Then it was approved or rejected....
next: what style are you going to make from this???? Or Make me a windswept from this one...
I want to see a virtual done !
Then it was approved or rejected....
Next: which branches are you keeping? Which ones are you taking off.How long will you cut them? Most of the time I would leave more branches than he would leave.,,,and he would end up adding take this one also off, and explain why...
Now wire it ...and be quick about it...he he he!
Now I will show you trees at different stages of branch formation...notice there are no pads unless the tree has reached the final stages.
But it is amazing how much can be done with just two bushy branches if trimmed and wired properly...
Did you come to a conclusion for the next time you are selecting material?
Dont look for trees with many small branches...rather get a tree with few bushy and with well developed branchlets branches...and you can have better results.
I shall comment on the pictures on the next post.

 

[Neli]

I came from Japan with close to 30000 pictures, and they are in a total confusion...
Picture 1 example of what is left during the first styling of a very bushy juniper.
pic 2. Taiga styling a juniper...final styling!!!!! this tree turned out unbelievably beautiful.
Pic.3 A yamadori being chopped off...it was eventually left with 3 branches only.
Pic 4 and 5. the same tree being left with 3 branches only.
Junipers have totally different rules of styling. A trunk can be bend and the first primary branches created from it...a small branch will be selected at the top of it and a apex developed. A branch can come from behind and be brought to the front as a primary branch...Let me look for some examples to show you...hope will find them.

 

[Neli]

when styling junipers you are started at school with styling them from rough material first styling and gradually progress to the last stages where you start styling pads.
Here are some examples of what I mentioned above.
First picture is a virtual of the tree.
Second is the tree with minimal wiring...and that was when I remembered to take a picture.
Third is the first styling of the tree.
4th is an example where the trunk continues as a first primary branch
3rd and 5th, I want you to notice the first left primary branch...it comes from behind and the top of the tree. Mind you levels are always maintained...

 

[Neli]

I can not over stress how important it is to always start with a virtual...I would not touch a tree unless I have done several virtuals...some time many...until a bulb lights and something tells me that this will be it...I get that feeling and I know that is the one.
tomorrow I shall continue on how to trim a juniper before wiring and styling it...

 

[Cadillactaste]

I can not over stress how important it is to always start with a virtual...I would not touch a tree unless I have done several virtuals...some time many...until a bulb lights and something tells me that this will be it...I get that feeling and I know that is the one.
tomorrow I shall continue on how to trim a juniper before wiring and styling it...

That does make sense...with seeing a somewhat idea of what you envisioned on paper. Before you chop off something that you might have really been able to work with to create something amazing.

 

[Neli]

How is a pad formed on juniper...??? This will determine how to trim it.
The most common mistake I see when a juniper is styled is that the primary branches are cleaned from foliage and a small tuff of foliage is left at the end.
A pad is composed of primary branch, secondary branches and tertiary branches. On smaller trees the division of branches is much less.
Newbies see that the tertiary branches are cleaned at the base from foliage and they do the same to the primary and secondary branches. And not only for competitions but for trees they are developing.
That is wrong.
A pad in juniper has the same basic structure as any tree. You have the primary branch forking at a distance from the trunks, which depends on the size of the tree. Some branches are left at the top to help create the center of the pad.
If you remove all the branches from the primary branch that are near the trunk how will you form a pad? A tuff of foliage at the end is not a pad...It is a pom pom.
For a competition you shorten the branch from the end....and use all the available branches closer to the trunk to form the pad, ones the structure is there you clean the tertiary branches and leave little pom poms at the end.
For developing your tree You grow branches, making sure light reaches closer to the trunk, so branches dont die, make them fat and cut them back. You need taper and movement Taper is created by cutting back and movement by wiring.
And when I say wiring I mean wiring to the tips of each branch.
Pic 1 how pads look from the top.
Ones a pad was wired it was checked by Oyakata...
Base of the pad needed to be flat
edges of all the tips needed to form a perfect shape to the mm. Nothing sticking out or being inside the perfect outline of the pad.
Nothing going down...all shoots going down even from the end tuffs were plucked out or turned up.
top of the pad had to have some volume in the center...tuffs evenly spaced
That was the hardest part to wire and style.
There are different approaches to doing that
I never rushed cutting the tertiary branches until I was sure they are not needed...and always used to start with the bottom layer, and later arranged the top branches.
I use to take the tertiary branches between each finger and look at what is remaining and where they are positioned in order to plan which one goes where. Some branches that were longer needed to be bend and some that are shorter used on top.
Ones the plan was in place I would chop the ends and clean them to the required length.
If I would cut and clean the tertiary first before having a plan you will end up with some shorter some longer and it becomes very hard to style. If I would clean the branch side shoots first, some time you can over clean it and you are forced to cut it longer in order to have foliage at the end.
Pic 2 is a pad that was neglected and is being redeveloped.
Pic 3 shows the positioning of the tertiary branches, but notice that some have foliage under...and that for Oyakata was a no no! They have to have the tips turned up or if there is enough foliage plucked off under. See how evenly the tertiary are spaced? Notice how ends are turned up, and for that it is important to have the wire at the base of he tuff under and a small loop like formed. Then while holding the branchlet with one hand you bend it with pliers or hand.
Pic 5 notice the profile of he pad. more volume at he back.

 

[Neli]

Post duplicated.

 

[Neli]

Some more pictures.
Picture 1 this is how a pad looks like ones it is filled up
Pic 2 a overgrown pad Notice the side shoots...they can be used later to shorten the pad and maintain the silhouette later by cutting back to them.
Pic 3 That is how the pad structure is on a large juniper.
Picture 4 and 5 branch structure of a mame.
Why was all this rumbling about pads??? This is to stress how important it is to create a proper skeleton (bones) before commencing with pad formation. And unless you leave branchlets closer o the trunk you will never be able to do that.

 

[Neli]

Jin and shari
Jin and shari portray the adverse conditions in which junipers grow. Gor me a juniper without hem is incmplete.
Having a straight stick as a jin defeats the purpose of the jin.
Jin is supposed to be of suitable thickness with lots of movement, taper and in the correct place and direction.
To achieve that wire branches intended for jin early.
Jin should never poke you in the eye or be hidden by the foliage.
Pic 1 This is just rough material...and one of my trees. This is how they are sold at the wholesale.
later the jin will be shortened and carved.
Pic 2 another of my junipers with branch grown for jin.
Pic 3 another of my junipers with lots of stubs left for jin.
Last 2 pictures from taisho en.

 

[Vin]

A pad is composed of primary branch, secondary branches and tertiary branches.

For Nincompoops like myself or if you suffer from CRS (which I do):

BRANCHES: The Primary branches are those that grow directly from the trunk; the Secondary branches are those that grow directly from the primary branches, the Tertiary branches grow from the secondary branches.

P.S. Neli, this thread is epic!

 

[Neli]

For Nincompoops like myself or if you suffer from CRS (which I do):

BRANCHES: The Primary branches are those that grow directly from the trunk; the Secondary branches are those that grow directly from the primary branches, the Tertiary branches grow from the secondary branches.

P.S. Neli, this thread is epic!

Tomorrow I might add some more rumblings or proceed to evaluating the trees which will be the hardest part.

 

[tmmason10]

Thanks for taking the time Neli, lots of good information and pictures here.

 

[mlbrown]

I'd like to throw my little tree in the ring for critique as well.

 

[Neli]

I like the general silhouette of the tree on top.
I dont think the lowest left branch is in harmony with the rest of the tree. I would have removed it. It is too low and horizontal...
The first right branch is cleaned too much...if there were branches on it closer to the trunk and they were removed it is not good since branches coming off it closer to the trunk were going to be needed to fill the shape of the tree towards the front.
The tertiary branches were supposed to be cleaned and wired. Branch selection also needed to be done.
This juniper was styled to create a general silhouette, but the bones (branches) are not arranged as they should be in order create pads in future or now.
Branches off the primary branches should not be going vertically upwards.
Right jin is too long.
If the bottom most left branch is disregarded, the two first primary branches are supposed to be at different levels, which portrays the adverse conditions in which junipers grow.

 

[Neli]

I guess you were trying to create windswept.
The material you started with was very difficult...but I believe you could not find better in such a short time.
I am not sure about the lowest branch. Were trying to create a cascade like image or a second trunk????I would have removed it...but in a developing tree it can be kept as sacrifice .
At least the lower portion of the trunks needs to be visible. There are some low branches coming from the front of the trunk.
Also I am not sure if there is a crossing branch there or is a jin going up.
General direction of all branches need to be in harmony between the branches.
The length of the branches also need to be in proportion to the trunk. I feel some branches are too long.
Also you left too many branches...think where the pads will be and will you have space?
I also see you have jinned lots of small branches at the top which could have been used to make better apex.
The tree is too tall for the thickness of the trunk. You could have created a much shorter tree that was going to look better.
You cleaned the branches from all the foliage close to the trunk and left only little tuffs at the end...That is not OK You should have reduced the foliage from outside the branch and try to use the branchlets closer to the trunk.
Remember lower branches are supposed to be longer then the ones on top, and that is done so that all foliage receives light.
You have some gin created between the branches that will eventually be hidden. Jin is also very thin.
I can see you tried...and for a beginner you are going more or less in the right direction. This is the only way to learn...my first trees were worse than yours.

 

[Neli]

You were trying to create twin trunk formal upright tree, but your second tree trunk comes a bit too high.
Branches dont follow the same direction.
Branches need to be wired and twisted so pads have the tertiary in horizontal plane. You should have wired even the tertiary. Tertiaries need to be trimmed to form the outline of the pads.
I feel your branches are starting too low on the trunk.
The first left branch on the main trunk needs to be going more to the back.
The tree is somewhat 2 dimensional.
A good effort from the material you had. I dont thing one could have done too much more from it.

 

[Neli]

I have seen some very funny trees sold by bonsai boy.
Quote:
Trained in the semi-cascade style.
Recommended bonsai tree, grown and trained by Bonsai Boy

This for sure is not a well styled tree and a bad example for beginners.
I love cascade style...I have seen so many different ones...never alike and some extremely creatively done.
Do you remember the tree Taiga was styling in a previous post, here? This is what he started with and what he did in 3-4 hours with that tree.
The first picture is what he started with...and that is after all the long extensions of the branches were removed.
Picture 2 is taiga creating all the jin...he concentrated on the jin first, and created the tree arounf that most prominent feature.
Can you see how little foliage he left? And on the last picture you see what he did with that foliage. Note that the branches close to the trunk were left and the branch was shortened from the end...some foliage was removed very close to the trunk that was weak and did not fit in the pad...but that was that.
Last picture is the finished tree.
Taiga was 6 years with Kimura. You must call him for a demo and maybe I can help organize it.
Now about your tree.
The general shape of the tree is fine, but it is not achieved in a proper manner.
I dont know if that is a jin that is coming out of the soil going to the right...if it is I would not have kept it.
Some time less is more.
You have a branch under the cascading part that is shorter than the one above.
Positioning of most of the branches is wrong...so I am not sure what to say.
I dont see any pad definition.
The tree is 2 dimensional, and somewhat styled like a deciduous.

 

[evmibo]

I'd like get your critique and future thoughts. Hoping it lives It's parsonii.