Neli's Box Store Challenge Tree Critique

[Vin]

Alright, I told everyone there would be a twist to the challenge. Neli and I have been talking about how to best critique and care for the Box Store Challenge trees. She has graciously agreed to provide not only a critique but information that will help us keep our trees healthy and alive. If you would like Neli to review your entry, please post it here. WARNING: If you are not ready for a blunt and honest assessment of your work then please don't post your tree. So here I am "Naked and Afraid" for Neli and all to see:

 

[Cadillactaste]

I thought it best to show the actual tree before work. I am honored that you will take time in teaching us more about what error in our ways took place. And what we might do to keep our tree healthy.

 

[Wee]

I'm game.....This was my first attempt at styling a tree, I have only added some guide wires and tried to wire a branch or two in the past, but never a whole tree. I also annealed my own copper wire to use and that worked out great except it didn't get as dark of a color as I would have liked. While on the hunt for a tree to use I didn't have design in mind, when I found this Blue Point I knew right away which way I would go with the styling, I finished the tree Friday night into Saturday morning Sept 12th. I have kept it in the shade and misted now for going on 2 weeks. I moved it last night to an area where it will get a couple hours of early morning sun and shade the rest of the day. I was proud to take 2nd in the beginner category.

Brian

 

[steve27]

O.k go head give it to me

I would love to learn since this is my real first attempt at styling a tree.
I have it in the shade for now . what else should I be doing to help keep it alive?
thank you!

 

[DougB]

Neli thanks for your willingness to share. Here are some pics of my Charlie Brown. The jin branch on the left is not as straight as the picture shows. thanks again.

 

[wireme]

I posted a small progression of my tree this am prior to this thread start. There's enough pics of my tree up so I'll leave it there. If you come across that thread and want to tear into the tree Neli, go for it.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Thanks for your willngness to give us your critique, Neli. Here's my little tree.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I posted a small progression of my tree this am prior to this thread start. There's enough pics of my tree up so I'll leave it there. If you come across that thread and want to tear into the tree Neli, go for it.

Hope you don't mind my attaching that link for her to see...
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?16674-my-boxstore-tree-progression

 

[lordy]

Thanks for your willngness to give us your critique, Neli. Here's my little tree.

Personally, I commend you for NOT doing a juniper, and specifically a pro. nana.
I like your composition with the exception of the proposed angle. Set it upright and let it be a twin trunk! Yews are great stuff!

 

[bonsaiBlake]

Just an idea. . . Since the final photo threads have no "thanks" or comments, could we do a members choice award. Everyone goes in and "thanks" their favorite tree. I think it would be really cool to see what happens. Maybe give till friday to vote?

Neli Thanks for taking the time to give us some critique. Thanks again vin, just when i think i've gleaned all i can from the challenge another opportunity to learn presents itself.

 

[Vin]

Just an idea. . . Since the final photo threads have no "thanks" or comments, could we do a members choice award. Everyone goes in and "thanks" their favorite tree. I think it would be really cool to see what happens. Maybe give till friday to vote?

Neli Thanks for taking the time to give us some critique. Thanks again vin, just when i think i've gleaned all i can from the challenge another opportunity to learn presents itself.

I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking about that early on but how could you limit the "thanks"? Only one Thank per category or it doesn't count? I couldn't think of a fair way to do it but if you can please post you idea. I think it would be really cool.

 

[bonsaiBlake]

I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking about that early on but how could you limit the "thanks"? Only one Thank per category or it doesn't count? I couldn't think of a fair way to do it but if you can please post you idea. I think it would be really cool.

I was thinking one "thanks" per caterogry would be perfect. Come up with a final 3 per category(top 3 with most "thanks" per). . .

 

[Vin]

I was thinking one "thanks" per caterogry would be perfect. Come up with a final 3 per category(top 3 with most "thanks" per). . .

Sounds good to me. If you want take the ball on this one I'd be very grateful. I had somewhere around 450 Posts before the challenge. My fingers are tired

 

[bonsaiBlake]

If your sure. I'll be more than happy to.

 

[Neli]

Thank You for the confidence but I would like to invite here the experienced members in this forum to help me also. I am by no means the best or more experienced person here. Also I am leaving shortly for Indonesia, for the opening of the two bonsai shows, and some holidays, so time is very limited.
So for this reasons I would like to invite, People Like October, Brian VF, Smoke , Victrina...and probably some more you suggest, since I am somewhat new to this forum and dont know all the good artists.
Also dont forget I am trained in Japanese traditional style and many people here prefer more naturalistic style.
I am sure they will be able to give different opinions from different perspective also, and two or more heads is always better than one.
I am not 100% sure about the objectives of this competition. Is it initial styling of the tree with future development in mind, or just styling it like demos are done some times....for instant results.
What is the difference?
In the first case how the tree looks now is not so important, it can be ugly as hell, as long as considerations are placed in the future development of the tree, and a good plan is in place.
In the second case...it is more of instant gratification...without not much consideration for the future of the tree.
Both are fine in a competition, and I understand with the limitations of the budget, size, and time limit, will probably be more appropriate for the second type of entries.
For me personally it is important to combine both, if possible.
So to start it off I would start with general observations of common mistakes...
I just woke up and my brains are not working properly yet...need to have a cup of coffee, and collect my scattered brains in one place, and I shall start.

 

[sorce]

Thanks Neli.

I would love to hear your critique!

Sorce

 

[Vin]

Thank You for the confidence but I would like to invite here the experienced members in this forum to help me also. I am leaving shortly for Indonesia, for the opening of the two bonsai shows, and some holidays, so time is very limited.
So for this reasons I would like to invite, People Like October, Brian VF, Smoke , Victrina...and probably some more you suggest, since I am somewhat new to this forum and dont know all the good artists.

I absolutely agree! Bringing in the experienced members will enhance the whole process in my opinion. That's what this forum is all about, exchanging ideas, getting direction and discussing our passion; Bonsai. By no means do we want you to look at this as a burden (and I'm not saying you do) so whatever information you are gracious enough to provide we can work with.

The primary objective of this challenge was indeed the task of taking inexpensive Box Store material and trying to make it look like a tree. However, as the challenge progressed, more and more participants were concerned about the survival of their work. So, we have evolved and that's one of the main reasons for this thread. Whatever you and any other experienced members can help us with will be much appreciated. I only asked you because I knew you really wanted participate but couldn't through no fault of your own. Thank you for being Neli because Neli is a very special and unique person! We all appreciate you!

 

[Neli]

Thank You Vin, Much appreciated!
I have started writing and perhaps will post in stages...it was of this days where I had so many unexpected and pressing commitments, but this evening I hope to post it.
Also the fact that I like writing long stories does not help...he he he

 

[Neli]

First of all would like to point the differences between the two different objectives of styling...In this competition that was not really mentioned.
I think a better learning experience would have been to style a tree for future development.
I have observed different kinds of demos, and each one has its merits as long as learners are notified when the demonstrator is going overboard and the health of the tree can be affected, or some procedures are done for instant gratification.
Some demos are so extreme and so much it is done to a tree, that the chances of the tree surviving are very slim.
Normally the point of those demos is to impress to a degree and at the same time show with rough material that normally will need to undergo styling over several years for better results, what can be done and what the end result will be.
In some of this demos a branch will be, contorted to fit in the silhouette of the tree, which really can be better avoided by bringing the foliage close to the trunk over the time...So for me that should be noted on those demos.
Another thing is that some time there are too many things done at one go, the large removal of foliage, wiring, even repotting at the same time...Trust me I have seen that in Japan...but there is always a reason behind that, and some of those reasons are easily explainable as long as you know that is a demo and you should not always follow it at home.
This is a demo Oyakata did for a Japanese magazine ...He went around the nursery and selected the most rubbish tree. According to him he was going to throw it away...
So what was the objective of this demo? Obviously to show off...mostly what can be done with junk, and how good a master he is...And I must tell you he is the best for me.
Look at the first picture...This is what I call instant gratification and something you should not do...Notice how twisted the branches are in order to create a pad? Over time the foliage can be brought back and a pad created without so much twisting.
On the second picture you see Oyakata sitting for two hours and drawing virtuals one after the other before the crew came to take pictures of the actual demo.
Look at the Third picture...That poor tree was bend, wired,jin created, severely reduced its foliage...and to top it up at the end repotted...I need o call school and ask if it is still alive...but I doubt.
Picture 4 is the final result.
And the last picture is what he started with.

 

[Cadillactaste]

First of all would like to point the differences between the two different objectives of styling...In this competition that was not really mentioned.
I think a better learning experience would have been to style a tree for future development.
I have observed different kinds of demos, and each one has its merits as long as learners are notified when the demonstrator is going overboard and the health of the tree can be affected, or some procedures are done for instant gratification.
Some demos are so extreme and so much it is done to a tree, that the chances of the tree surviving are very slim.
Normally the point of those demos is to impress to a degree and at the same time show with rough material that normally will need to undergo styling over several years for better results, what can be done and what the end result will be.
In some of this demos a branch will be, contorted to fit in the silhouette of the tree, which really can be better avoided by bringing the foliage close to the trunk over the time...So for me that should be noted on those demos.
Another thing is that some time there are too many things done at one go, the large removal of foliage, wiring, even repotting at the same time...Trust me I have seen that in Japan...but there is always a reason behind that, and some of those reasons are easily explainable as long as you know that is a demo and you should not always follow it at home.

Love what you did with that tree...simply amazing! Thanks for also taking time to explain reasoning behind demos and such.