need some noon advise

[jcrossett]

Hello all. I'm new to bonsai. I picked up 10 Japanese black pines from a nersery. I need advise in weather to plant them in the ground or start training. I'm from Maryland so also wondering if its to late to prone. Please school me I'm posting a picture of the trees I have. All the trees are about 18-24 inches tall and trunk need thickening. Thanks in advance.

 

[jcrossett]

Almost forgot

 

[DougB]

Welcome. Best to update your profile with your location. Much in the way of advice is dependent upon location. With regard to your new trees -- I'm sure you will be advised to put them in the ground and led them develop for a few years. Only other option, if you are pleased with the caliber of the trunk, is to develop miniature (mame) trees. Others will chime in with additional information.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

They're not really ready to begin training yet. Some of them look unhealthy.

Read these articles to gain an understanding of how to grow pines for bonsai...particularly using "sacrifice branches" and "final branches":

http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/03/02/sacrifice-branches-black-pine/
http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/07/13/sacrifice-branches-black-pine-part-2/

The latter pine in Part 2 is a smaller pine, closer in size to yours. It will help.

Let everything grow this year (pots or ground, either is ok) and then we can look at which growth is sacrifice and which growth is going to become part of the final design.

 

[jcrossett]

Thanks Doug and Brian. I was thinking about the sacrifice branches but the problem I'm having is there's only 1 tree with a low branch. Also seen how brown they were when I got them potted them and put them in the sun and ferts hoping they spring back.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

You'll get more low buds this summer if they're healthy. Keep them protected and in plenty of sun.

Also, remember that brown needles won't turn green again. The pines need to put out good growth this year, and will shed those brown needles over the course of the next 6-8 months.

 

[edprocoat]

They do look unhealthy and its never a good idea to fertilze or work on unhealthy trees. It also looks like regular potting soil they are in, that will probably keep them too wet.

ed

 

[jcrossett]

What kind of soil should they be in ?? Well what I mean is since there not in the training process should they still be in bonsia soil?

 

[jcrossett]

OK just a quick update and question. I just received 10 4 gallon nursery pots. I'm wondering if I could swap my trees from they flower pots that they are in to these pots. Also with the shape they are in and being in Maryland I'd like some advice on soil that people in the area use. Right now they are in normal potting soil and the soil is staying wet not in a few months I don't see the soil staying very wet but just looking for advise and ideas/suggestions.

 

[october]

Not to jump the gun here, but I think a few of these trees might already be dead. Pines take quite a while to die, so if they are looking pretty bad and getting worse, they are probably dead already. You could get these trees in a mix of akadama, pumice and lava rock. This would provide a better growing environment as far as drainage. However, removing them from the container they are in might stress them further.

Personally, I don't think the nursery should have sold these to you, unless they were extremely reduced in price or free. If you are lookign to work with these. You will need to wait until they regain their health, which might be a couple of years. Then you might be able to start training them. If you do stick with these, you are looking at about 8-10 years before they become bonsai. Also, even then, they might not be nice specimens.

Rob

 

[DougB]

One of the best ways to learn is to join a club or two. There you will find experienced bonsai curators who know your climate and how to keep trees alive (your first task). You are also within driving distance to the National Arboretum which houses one of if not the best bonsai exhibit in North America. By the way here is the Baltimore Bonsai Club's website http://baltimorebonsaiclub.org/

Good luck.

 

[jcrossett]

Thanks everyone I'm catching on really quick. For soil l found a really easy to learn download.
But still have a few questions. On pine bark is that pine bark mulch or can I use pine shavings for horse bedding. http://m.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tractor-supply-coreg;-fine-premium-pine-shavings-covers-55-cu-ft
Now chicken grit is the same as.http://m.lowes.com/product?langId=-...06122&store=595&view=detail&nValue=4294612783
And crushed lava rock is similar to.http://www.drystall.com/dry_stall.html


Also called the nursery about the dead plants 5 dead 3 questionable and 2 in great shape. And the said they will ship new in place of the dead in September. So on a good start thanks for the feed back.

 

[Poink88]

can I use pine shavings for horse bedding. http://m.tractorsupply.com/en/store/tractor-supply-coreg;-fine-premium-pine-shavings-covers-55-cu-ft

No. Totally different, the shavings is made out of wood NOT bark.

 

[jcrossett]

OK but I'm good with the rest of the stuff? And it is mulch correct?

 

[Poink88]

OK but I'm good with the rest of the stuff? And it is mulch correct?

Mulch may be too big. Look for "landscaper's soil conditioner" instead. They usually are much smaller.

I get mine off Lowe's. Look for this.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_78375-76450...+gro&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=hapi+gro&facetInfo=

or this... (better I think)
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=rel&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

 

[jcrossett]

Okay that's perfect I'm going to buy that from a place here called the mill its like southern states or Tractor Supply Company.

 

[eugen_onegin]

Fellow Marylander here, my only two cents is to be wary when the summer gets crazy hot. Maybe consider a soil that retains a little more moisture so that the scorching sun doesn't rob the tree of water. Check often and daily when temperatures are high for prolonged periods of time.

You could slip pot your healthier trees into your 4 gallon pots. Don't disturb the roots or prune any branches, you want maximum growth and health over the course of the next few years. Maybe next year you could locate potential final branches and sacrifice branches.

Happy Hunting,

 

[Paradox]

I also buy pine bark at Lowes but the bags I get dont look like the ones Poink posted. Ive found the Lowes bark to be smaller than the kind I find at Home Depot. Just pays to look around at but before you purchase.

I then sift out the fines and dust before mixing it into the rest of my soil.

 

[Adair M]

Dry-Stall is pumice. The only problem with Dry-Stall is the particles are really small. Usually for pines, I'd prefer a larger particle size.

Pine Bark mulch: For sure, many use it. It does hold moisture. Just make sure that it's only about 25 percent of the soil mix. Otherwise it starts to rot and build up a slime mold. Which prevents mychorazzae, which is a beneficial fungus for pines. It prefers a dryer soil mix.

Chicken grit is a form of sharp sand. You can use it.

Generally speaking, pines do best in a quick draining soil with granular size of about an English pea. Yes, you will have to water daily.

Maryland is not a really hot climate for pines. JBP should do well there.

 

[jcrossett]

Just an update on the purchase These are surly dead in the first picture. In second pic I'm not sure about this one yet. The rest look OK but just started to brown a little think this is due to over watering since its been raining a lot here. OK well they the pictures are not in order think you will understand