my crappy trees. years later...still crappy lol
- Thread starter Gbhunter77
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
GB: You wrote. "As far as a chip yes I do but I did not when I came to the club, all I wanted was help, instead was basically told im wasting the club members time. Im still a member of the club and pay my dues, but do not attend the meetings, I really only trust and interact with one member." Two pooints; who is the one member you talk to? I would be curious why this individual has not brought up this issue? If you feel you are being dissed you might want to examine your own demeanor: Perhaps you indicate that having you for a friend might be too much of an emotional involvement for most people.
Clubs vary. I'm a member of the Atlanta Bonsai Society. I'm also a defacto member of Bay Island Bonsai. They're very different!
BIB has a Sensei, and all the members are required to take a certain number of workshops each year with the Sensei. There's an annual show put on by the club, and the trees have to be approved in advance by the Sensei. The trees are all at a level equal to or superior to those shown at the National show. Much smaller, obviously. But extremely high
quality. The awards are selected by a vote of the members. The Sensei chooses 5 or 6 trees in each category, then the membership votes for their choice to receive the award.
The Atlanta club meets monthly, and brings in 3 or 4 guest artists for workshops each year. The annual show usually has a headliner artist to help set up the show and judge, as well as conduct workshops and a demo. There are categories of expert, hobbiest, and novice for judging. The idea is to promote participation. Since all are encouraged to show, the quality of the trees on display can vary wildly. Unfortunately, while most novices are quite happy to enter in the "novice" category, few enter the "hobbiest" category! They all think they're experts!
From what I understand from talking with friends, in California and other parts of the West Coast, there are a number Sensei type clubs. They are rare in other parts of the country.
The benefit of the Sensei types clubs is everyone works within the guidelines established by the Sensei. Trees tend to progress because the Sensei helps to set the long range view in the beginning, and refines it as the tree progresses.
The serial guest artists type clubs fair less well because once the guest artist leaves town, the club member is left on his own. The next guest artist may see a different image, and restyles the tree in a different manner. This happens a lot.
So what happens is a small group of members form a "study group" and bring in the same guest artist a couple times a year, outside of the Club. I know of two such study groups in Atlanta. These members trees progress, but the rest of the larger Club's do not. And the study group members are reluctant to support the visiting guest artists because they want to stay focused on their sensei's program.
I don't have a solution to this. I'm just making an observation.
BIB has a Sensei, and all the members are required to take a certain number of workshops each year with the Sensei. There's an annual show put on by the club, and the trees have to be approved in advance by the Sensei. The trees are all at a level equal to or superior to those shown at the National show. Much smaller, obviously. But extremely high
quality. The awards are selected by a vote of the members. The Sensei chooses 5 or 6 trees in each category, then the membership votes for their choice to receive the award.
The Atlanta club meets monthly, and brings in 3 or 4 guest artists for workshops each year. The annual show usually has a headliner artist to help set up the show and judge, as well as conduct workshops and a demo. There are categories of expert, hobbiest, and novice for judging. The idea is to promote participation. Since all are encouraged to show, the quality of the trees on display can vary wildly. Unfortunately, while most novices are quite happy to enter in the "novice" category, few enter the "hobbiest" category! They all think they're experts!
From what I understand from talking with friends, in California and other parts of the West Coast, there are a number Sensei type clubs. They are rare in other parts of the country.
The benefit of the Sensei types clubs is everyone works within the guidelines established by the Sensei. Trees tend to progress because the Sensei helps to set the long range view in the beginning, and refines it as the tree progresses.
The serial guest artists type clubs fair less well because once the guest artist leaves town, the club member is left on his own. The next guest artist may see a different image, and restyles the tree in a different manner. This happens a lot.
So what happens is a small group of members form a "study group" and bring in the same guest artist a couple times a year, outside of the Club. I know of two such study groups in Atlanta. These members trees progress, but the rest of the larger Club's do not. And the study group members are reluctant to support the visiting guest artists because they want to stay focused on their sensei's program.
I don't have a solution to this. I'm just making an observation.
Gbhunter77
Mame
You assume allot but dont know shit! Sorry I call it as I see it. Im not going to plaster that persons name all over a public bullettin. I went to the club maybe 2 times. Im not there to make friends with assholes like you ok.now im making assuptions like you feels good does it not? I was asking for advise not to be anyones friend. Who the hell goes to a bonsai club to make friends in 2 visits? Also show me the guy that refuses to give advice and makes a personal decision by being asked "can you halp me with this"? Wooooow holy crap thats a proposal for marige right there.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
One of my clubs is nothing but a social club and the president has no interest in anything beyond that so it happens. I joined to advance in bonsai and guess what, I made a couple friends too.
The other club I am in, hardly anyone talked to me until I went to a few meetings and they started to recognize me.
I think to condemn an entire club because of one person is a bit harsh and short sited. One person is not the entire group. Vance is trying to reach out to you and help you get the help you're seeking.
Every group has a atmosphere. Some people are leery of new comers You say you werent there to make friends, which is fine but were you friendly or did you basically demand help without letting them get to know you a bit or ask out of context to the current activity? That can be a turn off for some people.
Gbhunter77
Mame
If his idea of reaching out is to tell me im insufferable when hes never met me. He can kiss my ass.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
The first time I went to see the club and join I never met anyone like that. I've only been there 3 times as I live a long way away. But the members are great. They all know me and I know the names of most.
Maybe that club isn't for you. Apparently it is for me though. Because all of the members I've met aren't assholes at all.
Wait a minute.... Crap! Maybe I'm the Asshole!
Was the guy you talked by chance big and bald?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I don't have a clue what this guy might be talking about. Unless he showed up bristling and foaming at the mouth demanding that someone help him I can't imagine one of our members that would have treated him in this manner. The Four Seasons club is always looking to grow, runnig off new people in the manner he has suggested does not make sence.
Gbhunter77
Mame
What manner?! He told me not to waste his time. Its not like he jumped on me like an undead minion trying to eat me. He blew me off. He was the one that other members referred me to for help. I do not even know if the guy is still alive. I talked to some bonsai people in and out of the area they had bad things to say. But that was a while ago. However it seems due to "the chip on my shoulder" not much has changed.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
OK let's go in this direction: Where was the club l0cated at the time, what kind of tree did you ask for help with? That might help determine who this person was. Maybe you no longer care but I do.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
For crying out loud. Vance asked for a name (which you could private message him in "conversations" at the top of the page). That would go a long way in solving your problem with the club. Vance is not an unreasonable guy and could probably get the bottom of your experience and make sure it doesn't happen again (to you, or others.) The kind of attitude you've described is a club killer and I think Vance knows that.
Being stubborn and calling people names solves nothing for anyone.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Unless proved different I have to assume this attitude is really at the heart of the issue and maybe the reason he is unwilling to respond with specifics.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Maybe. But I think he should give it another shot.
Maybe come to the annual show and meet us and talk to us.
I would like to help.
@Gbhunter77 . I don't remember if I asked you this before but if you come to our annual show,we can sit down and discuss your trees. I can't speak for Vance but I'd love to help.
And you can watch mugo pines get their first work to get them on their way. Maybe even get one for yourself and get it going. I know a guy that brings a bunch to work on every year to sell and work on. It's very educational and entertaining.
So come on and meet some people like Vance and others that love the bonsai like you do. I know you like your trees or you wouldn't be asking for help.
Gbhunter77
Mame
Im in a convo with a member. I will come, but my issue is now that I cannot drive. So I have to see if i can get a ride out to Rochester..
Gbhunter77
Mame
As far as the type of tree it was a juniper and this was...in Tellys. Assume all you want. I really dont care.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I think Mike is refering to their show in Michigan, so that might be a bit easier?
He and Vance are good people. I'm sure they are more than willing to help as are those here if you want to start some specific threads on specific trees.
Gbhunter77
Mame
I do have a tiny upright mugo pine. Not sure what to do with it of anything due to its size.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Cool. Make a thread in the pines section.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
That's the only time I go. Was going to show a couple last time but they got ate. Might bring a couple next year.
When it's time I don't know how far you live from Rochester Hills GB but if it isn't too awful far I will even pick you and your trees up and take you there. I'll even take you home.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Lol Rochester Hills, Michigan. ......thought he meant Rochester NY
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