Musk Maple

[gottrees]

Hey All,
Here is my Musk maple (no relation to the palmatum family) that I have been working on for about two years. The first two pictures are early this year after repot. Third, is a virt from Will. Fourth and fifth are my rendition of Will's virt. Sorry for the shadows, I could not find the black board. When I find it I will try to repost another picture from the front.

I guy wired the first branch down pretty low (Will, this tree is pretty flexible). I also wired and bent the first branch toward the viewer. I did the same with the branch above it so it did not extend past the first branch. I still think its a little bit too heavy and the apex needs some filling out but I think is starting to come along. Any other ideas of what I can do to improve this?
All thoughts welcomed......

Ted

 

[rockm]

Nice little literati. Needs a smaller different pot. The rock pot is too deep and heavy for this tree.

FWIW, I don't know how you can work with this species . I was given a seedling to play around with last month. I can't bring myself to work on it. It's smell is pretty strong and indescribable. It is almost too stinky to stand, It does keep insects away, however...

Musk maple is premna microphylla, or Japanese Neem tree.

 

[Bill S]

These the same Premna that Robert Stevens has so many really really nice trees made of??
rockm if they chase you away from it as good of a material they seem to be the must really reek.

 

[rockm]

BIll,

I don't know if this is the same one Robert Stevens works on. I know Amy Liang has several pictured in her books.

The pics and info I've seen online about exactly what this plant is are rather confusing:

For instance, The leaves on this one:
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/ChiangPremna.html

look nothing like the leaves on mine.

The leaves on the plants here:
http://www.lazyssfarm.com/Plants/Shrubs/M-R Shrubs/M-R Images/premna_microphylla_japonica.htm

look like mine--Lobed leaves that look similar to maple.

I was told this plant was hardy in my N. Va. Zone 7 climate and I have no reason to doubt that since the source has overwintered them in this area for some time.

It is listed by USDA as a temperate species:
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?29568

and Yeah, it STINKS...

 

[mcpesq817]

and Yeah, it STINKS...

Yeah, very stinky. I can't really describe what they smell like - I had no interest in taking a second sniff

 

[Bill S]

Another one of those fits all names sounds like. I'm thinking the areas I see the really nice Premnas from Stevens etc., are typically places like Indonesia, or Thialand etc., so probably not the same plants, most likely not hardy here either, possibly I suppose, but I wouldn't think so.

Maybe something stinky from these could be usefull as a theft deterant.

 

[rockm]

I ran across this article by Robert on KOB:
http://blogs.knowledgeofbonsai.org/robert_steven/articles/

Apparently, he's working with Premna Serratifolia AND p. Micorphylla. Seems BOTH smell awful--"Stinky B*&$#" is the plant's nickname in Chinese... There are also apparently 200 different varieties with different leaf shapes...

 

[gottrees]

Nice little literati. Needs a smaller different pot. The rock pot is too deep and heavy for this tree.

FWIW, I don't know how you can work with this species . I was given a seedling to play around with last month. I can't bring myself to work on it. It's smell is pretty strong and indescribable. It is almost too stinky to stand, It does keep insects away, however...

Musk maple is premna microphylla, or Japanese Neem tree.

Thanks. I was thinking the top was to heavy not the bottom. I am working on the ramification of the roots. When I got it, it was very root bound. I will look for a smaller pot for the next repotting.

This tree is discussed in bonsai focus issue 116 pg28. They show three different types of premna. The musk maple is likened to the premna serratifolia. It definitely does not look like the microphylla they display.

Ted

 

[gottrees]

I did not like the smell when I first started working with it but after a while I am not bothered by it at all. I am actually amused by it now. I love seeing peoples reaction when they smell it. They tend to have a look of disgust and then look at me with a curiosity that says "you actually work with this thing?". I have another one growing in the ground that I will keep there for about 10yrs. The trunks dont seem to thicken fast and I would like one with a 2.5" trunk.

Ted

 

[rockm]

I was planning on putting mine in the ground and seeing what happened. It's only 1/4" diameter or a little larger. At least the rabbits won't bother it.

I don't know if I can get used to the smell though...It's vaguely headache inducing

 

[grouper52]

Hi Ted. I don't think I've ever actually seen someone take a virt I offered and bring it to reality. Nice job, and I'm glad you thought enough of my suggestion to go forward. A bit of extension and definition to the foliage should really bring it to a nice state.

Yes, a different pot. Definitely.

Get some silicone ear plugs and stick one in each nostril.

Will

 

[gottrees]

It's vaguely headache inducing

LMAO .
Yeah, nothing will touch these things. I am sure if its vaguely headache inducing to you it's straight antibuse to the rabbits.

Ted

 

[gottrees]

Hi Ted. I don't think I've ever actually seen someone take a virt I offered and bring it to reality. Nice job, and I'm glad you thought enough of my suggestion to go forward. A bit of extension and definition to the foliage should really bring it to a nice state.

Yes, a different pot. Definitely.

Get some silicone ear plugs and stick one in each nostril.

Will

Thanks Will. I did appreciate your virt. I was not exactly sure where to go with this tree so it helped me see what could be done. I am much happier with the tree and its current direction. I will start searching for a smaller home for its next repot.
Does anyone know how vigorous the roots are for this tree?

Ted

 

[milehigh_7]

BIll,

I don't know if this is the same one Robert Stevens works on. I know Amy Liang has several pictured in her books.

The pics and info I've seen online about exactly what this plant is are rather confusing:

For instance, The leaves on this one:
http://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/ChiangPremna.html

look nothing like the leaves on mine.

The leaves on the plants here:
http://www.lazyssfarm.com/Plants/Shrubs/M-R Shrubs/M-R Images/premna_microphylla_japonica.htm

look like mine--Lobed leaves that look similar to maple.

I was told this plant was hardy in my N. Va. Zone 7 climate and I have no reason to doubt that since the source has overwintered them in this area for some time.

It is listed by USDA as a temperate species:
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?29568

and Yeah, it STINKS...

I just received "Musk Maples" that I won on the .99 auction. If you know me you know trying to figure out the correct name for things is one of my favorite things. Well, this is one that seems to have some confusion. The species that Robert works with is a Premna alright but not microphylla. Over on Adam's page he talks a bit about this: https://adamaskwhy.com/2015/12/02/premna-bonsai/

The Musk Maple / Japanese Neem Tree / Premna microphylla var. japonica is the one I got and it also the same as the Lazy S link from Rock. Neat tree, strong odor. Would not say stink exactly but it is strong and it is unique. It smells almost petroleum like to me. I would like care instructions on this if anyone knows. I think I saw @Don Blackmond knows a bit about them. I would love to learn more. Especially propagating.

 

[JudyB]

I just received "Musk Maples" that I won on the .99 auction. If you know me you know trying to figure out the correct name for things is one of my favorite things. Well, this is one that seems to have some confusion. The species that Robert works with is a Premna alright but not microphylla. Over on Adam's page he talks a bit about this: https://adamaskwhy.com/2015/12/02/premna-bonsai/

The Musk Maple / Japanese Neem Tree / Premna microphylla var. japonica is the one I got and it also the same as the Lazy S link from Rock. Neat tree, strong odor. Would not say stink exactly but it is strong and it is unique. It smells almost petroleum like to me. I would like care instructions on this if anyone knows. I think I saw @Don Blackmond knows a bit about them. I would love to learn more. Especially propagating.

I've been eyeing a fairly decent one on the auction, but after reading this, don't know if it's something I'll pursue too hard. I also would be interested in care, especially about backbudding on older wood, as the one I'm looking at needs inner branching help.

 

[milehigh_7]

I've been eyeing a fairly decent one on the auction, but after reading this, don't know if it's something I'll pursue too hard. I also would be interested in care, especially about backbudding on older wood, as the one I'm looking at needs inner branching help.

I have heard opposite information on these. Some sources say they backbud really well. Others say not so much. They are really cool looking little trees. Apparently, the ones I have are hardy to about 6a and are deciduous whereas the ones that Robert Steven uses most often are much more tropical and evergreen.

 

[milehigh_7]

Just a bump to say I bought one of the round leaf species. They don't have as strong of a smell and seem to be evergreen in Phoenix whereas the Musk Maples are dropping leaves.

 

[bonsaibeginer]

I'm planning to buy a premna. I have a few questions: does it smell even when untouched ?
Is their a difference betwee microphylla and serratifolia in a mature tree?

 

[milehigh_7]

Yeah the leaf shapes and plant characteristics are very different. The tropical version more rounded leaves are very glossy and will get quite large. However they reduce exponentially. The glossy tropical ones don’t smell to be honest. I have two by me right now.

The one with the large leaves is a cutting from the little one. Man they trunk up fast. The cutting has gone from toothpick size to almost 1/4 inch in just a couple of months.