Mugo Pine from nursery stock in autumn (North West EU)

[Vance Wood]

Hi all, getting back to one of my first questions about producing remification/back budding. If I'm correct this time of year is ideal to prune in order to get back buds (or should I wait a bit more?). Looking at the attached picture, would de pink line be where to make the cut?

Thx in advance!

What source are you sighting? It has always been my experience that Mugos are best pushed by doing this the first of July when the tree is in active growth. However if you remove all the old needles because you saw some body do that on Youtube you will probably not have the results you are looking for. This of course is dependent on whether the old needles are still in place. The big problem with Mugos is people mix techniques with them and don't really have a clue why they are doing something. They just look at the most recent Youtube video and think wow I can do that not realizing that timing is crucial--- and your question is one of those. You can do as you have thought and you will get some back budding if the tree is strong, healthy and in the mood. Sometimes that is not the case. In the summer you can depend on what you do for success.

 

[Storm87]

Thx for the fast reply. I'm referring to post #6 in this thread. Maybe I misunderstood. Anyhow, I'll follow your advice.
Where should I prune the branch, is the pink line more or less correct?

Kind regards

 

[Vance Wood]

Thx for the fast reply. I'm referring to post #6 in this thread. Maybe I misunderstood. Anyhow, I'll follow your advice.
Where should I prune the branch, is the pink line more or less correct?

Kind regards

Post #6, Mike makes the point wait till late Spring. I guess the best way is for you to tell me how far along are the new buds in development? I wait till the beginning of July there a-bouts when the new needles are starting to elongate and open. It is this point where the tree is most active and rolling down-hill so to speak. When cut back hard at this time of year the forward momentum of growth is hard to stop so the tree responds by looking for places to put all those hormones by forming buds anywhere it can find a place to form a bud. That is why you do not cut out/off old needles like people do with a Black Pine. You don't start removing old needles till you are in the refinement stage.

 

[Storm87]

Post #6, Mike makes the point wait till late Spring. I guess the best way is for you to tell me how far along are the new buds in development? I wait till the beginning of July there a-bouts when the new needles are starting to elongate and open. It is this point where the tree is most active and rolling down-hill so to speak. When cut back hard at this time of year the forward momentum of growth is hard to stop so the tree responds by looking for places to put all those hormones by forming buds anywhere it can find a place to form a bud. That is why you do not cut out/off old needles like people do with a Black Pine. You don't start removing old needles till you are in the refinement stage.

Thx for the explanation. Always good to know why to do or not to do certain things.
At this point there are no visible new buts on the branches. So for now I'll wait until the beginning of July before cutting back.

The three is stil in its nursery container. Can I cut back branches and repot in the same season, since the tree is stil in its nursery container?

 

[sorce]

Can I cut back branches and repot in the same season

You can but I wouldn't do yours.

You need all the health for them backbuds.

Seems fine in that soil, don't be afraid to water water water.....water.

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

Thx for the explanation. Always good to know why to do or not to do certain things.
At this point there are no visible new buts on the branches. So for now I'll wait until the beginning of July before cutting back.

The three is stil in its nursery container. Can I cut back branches and repot in the same season, since the tree is stil in its nursery container?

You wrote: At this point there are no visible new buts on the branches. That's because you are not looking close enough and do not yet understand what you are looking at. Every group of old needles has at its base a dormant bud nestled between the joining of the two needles, and another beneath the bark under the two needles. Sometime others farther down the trunk or branch. Mugos are budding machines if you know how to start them. If you look at the old wood where there are no longer any needles present you may notice these little scars on the trunk where the old needles were. There is the possibility that the tree will back bud from those locations if you are successful in driving the growth energy back far enough to force the latent buds into activity. Word of caution; these new buds are very fragile and easily broken off.

Your tree has a good trunk and may make a good bonsai one day. It has nice movement but it needs some refining.
The first branch on the left should come off. The second branch on the right should come off. Leave stubs when you do this. You can jin them latter after they dry out. If you cut them flush now they will die back into the tree (maybe) or leave a really swollen scar where the tree was obviously cut by the hands of man. It would be nice if you could post the photo of the entire tree not just one part here and one part there, all parts make up a tree and it is impossible to give any advise more specific than what I can see.

 

[Storm87]

Here are some some more photo's.
This fall I did some wiring and pruned back some branches.

 

[Storm87]

You wrote: At this point there are no visible new buts on the branches. That's because you are not looking close enough and do not yet understand what you are looking at. Every group of old needles has at its base a dormant bud nestled between the joining of the two needles, and another beneath the bark under the two needles. Sometime others farther down the trunk or branch. Mugos are budding machines if you know how to start them. If you look at the old wood where there are no longer any needles present you may notice these little scars on the trunk where the old needles were. There is the possibility that the tree will back bud from those locations if you are successful in driving the growth energy back far enough to force the latent buds into activity. Word of caution; these new buds are very fragile and easily broken off.

Your tree has a good trunk and may make a good bonsai one day. It has nice movement but it needs some refining.View attachment 233774
The first branch on the left should come off. The second branch on the right should come off. Leave stubs when you do this. You can jin them latter after they dry out. If you cut them flush now they will die back into the tree (maybe) or leave a really swollen scar where the tree was obviously cut by the hands of man. It would be nice if you could post the photo of the entire tree not just one part here and one part there, all parts make up a tree and it is impossible to give any advise more specific than what I can see.

Are the photo's in my post sufficient? Further advice on the tree is more than welcome!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Where did all those branches close to the trunk go?

 

[Vance Wood]

Are the photo's in my post sufficient? Further advice on the tree is more than welcome!

As to the photos; personally I would like to see the tree photo in front of a dark featureless background where the only thing illuminated is the tree. As to suggestions. The first branch on the left is something I would consider removing. I also noticed that there seems to be a rather large root circling around the surface on the left side of the pot. This root should and could be removed as soon as possible.

 

[clem]

First, i would transplant this tree in a well draining granulate soil mix (akadama, pumice, pouzzolane, Kiryu etc). For me it is still the time to do it (the candles are growing).

@AlainK : oui, il y a des mugo greffés, en particulier des mugo en forme de balais, avec des petites aiguilles , en jardinerie, mais je ne sais pas si c'est sur du pin sylvestre ou du pin noir ou sur un cultivar de mugo plus fort, à aiguilles longues.

 

[Vance Wood]

First, i would transplant this tree in a well draining granulate soil mix (akadama, pumice, pouzzolane, Kiryu etc). For me it is still the time to do it (the candles are growing).

@AlainK : oui, il y a des mugo greffés, en particulier des mugo en forme de balais, avec des petites aiguilles , en jardinerie, mais je ne sais pas si c'est sur du pin sylvestre ou du pin noir ou sur un cultivar de mugo plus fort, à aiguilles longues.

I would'nt just repot the tree for the sake of repotting it. If you do not as yet understand what your are doing and why you are doing it in your best interest to wait till things make sense to you. A year or two would not cause a serious problem with this tree seeing that it looks rather healthy now.

 

[clem]

i prefer to cultivate my trees in proper draining soil with granulates, to not worry about excessive moist after watering... This way, the risk of root rot is very low even if i water every day.

 

[Vance Wood]

i prefer to cultivate my trees in proper draining soil with granulates, to not worry about excessive moist after watering... This way, the risk of root rot is very low even if i water every day.

Let me say this: It sounds ike you are looking to bare root the tree. If you do this to a Mugo this time of year you are likely going to kill it regardless of what you prefer. I prefer that my trees look like Borjnhlom master pieces but I have to settle for something less.

 

[clem]

Let me say that : no bare root is needed to repott a tree in a good draining soil...

 

[Vance Wood]

Let me say that : no bare root is needed to repott a tree in a good draining soil...

How does that work? If it is your desire to have your tree growing in a very granulated mix and it is now in a nursery mix how are you going to get there without bare rooting it?

 

[clem]

lol your questions are so strange, like a professor .. & not a cool one ^^.. All the mugo pines from nursery stock i bought had a compact and inextricable rootball & i never had any issue transplanting them, in spring, in a draining soil.

for me, the pot of your mugo pine is too large and too flashy for your tree : the first thing i look at isn't your pine, but your pot. I could suggest you another pot, but i'm not sure a great Bonsai professor like you would be interested ^^

 

[Vance Wood]

I apologize I thought you were asking for suggestions, obviously you do not need any. You seem to suggest that you have much experience with Mugo Pines; I would love to see some of them if you do not find me asking as offensive.

 

[clem]

I you want to see my trees, they are almost all in edg forum. I have no long time/decades experience on mugo pine (or on any other tree specie) but we are in a free forum, and i have the right to say what i would do if i had this young mugo pine. i used to have 5 young mugo pines 10 or 15 years before, and i had no problem repotting them in spring in a granulated soil mix..

I suggest you to find someone else than me to speak Bonsai with, because i have certainly not your experience (skill, level etc etc) and i prefer to have a peacefull trip in Bonsai forums, thanks !

 

[Vance Wood]

Clem: You are the one who became adversarial and stiff necked. Just a reminder, this thread was started by Storm and it was him I (wrongfully) thought I was addressing. You can continue under the assumption you know everything there is to know about Mugo Pines, have your own opinion and show us what happens doing it your way.