Montezuma Cypress gone cripsy

[AaronThomas]

@bonhe an @rockm
Thanks guys for your time and the info.... I had read that MC were great starter trees but perhaps not in the desert. I bought the tree from a local nursery... they have dozens of MC just sitting in the sun. I'm going by there on wed so I will stop in to see how the remaining trees are doing.
One of the first things I did yesterday when I noticed the dry leaves was check the soil temp.... and have to say it was warm but not hot. The pot is insulated with the wood box... see pic below. But I don't think its possible to protect the tree from the heat. It was 105 in the shade yesterday and will be again today. As you can see I have not made a chop on the tree yet.... was going to wait till next season. Unfortunately, not sure humidity is going to be very easy to achieve. I suppose I could try to build a box out of plastic.
LOL another soil mess up!!!! AHHHHHHHHH! Getting frustrating... organics, no organics .... and the debate continues. The lava and the bark retain quite a bit of moisture.... but I guess not enough. The pic below was taken of the soil just below the surface...have not watered yet today.
I was under the impression that using a heaver more moisture retentive soil would "cook" the roots.
I think I may have to just stick with elms and bougies!

 

[AaronThomas]

"negative Nancy"

I'm good with it!!!! Rather get all the info on what I have screwed up on all at once!!!!

 

[aml1014]

@rockm
Currently the MC is in a well draining soil of lava and orchid bark. Plenty of drainage holes in the bottom so soil stays moist. Extra protection in the form of a wooden box was created (mostly for esthetics) but definitely keep the heat off the sides of the black tub. And I always allow the literally scalding water to empty out of the hose first....Its amazing how hot it gets! LOL

Wondering if this is something I can expect to happen every year or is this just a reaction to being removed from the nursery pot into a larger container?
Should the tree remain in a shady spot for the remainder of the season?

It doesn't have to be an every year thing, our climates are much different then most. Even here in NM I'm the high desert, once Temps get into 90s I provide shade for ALL trees from atleast noon until sundown.

My first year I had lots of problems listening to people from other climates saying to leave them in full sun, BS when ultraviolet rays hit 12 on the UV scale with high Temps and low humidity, any plant in a pot is going to be pissed!

Aaron

 

[AaronThomas]

I removed a lot of the dry leaves and noticed lots of die back on the smaller branches. There are a few branches with lush green leaves toward the bottom but who know for how long. Could be a goner!

 

[aml1014]

I removed a lot of the dry leaves and noticed lots of die back on the smaller branches. There are a few branches with lush green leaves toward the bottom but who know for how long. Could be a goner!

I'd just leave it in the shade if you can and hope the wind doesn't come in to hard. I know you guys were like 113°f yesterday, right? It's a little to early in the summer for that!

I'm hoping it makes it also, it's a cool tree. I'd love to get one of my own if I. Could find one.

Aaron

 

[rockm]

@bonhe an @rockm
Thanks guys for your time and the info.... I had read that MC were great starter trees but perhaps not in the desert. I bought the tree from a local nursery... they have dozens of MC just sitting in the sun. I'm going by there on wed so I will stop in to see how the remaining trees are doing.
One of the first things I did yesterday when I noticed the dry leaves was check the soil temp.... and have to say it was warm but not hot. The pot is insulated with the wood box... see pic below. But I don't think its possible to protect the tree from the heat. It was 105 in the shade yesterday and will be again today. As you can see I have not made a chop on the tree yet.... was going to wait till next season. Unfortunately, not sure humidity is going to be very easy to achieve. I suppose I could try to build a box out of plastic.
LOL another soil mess up!!!! AHHHHHHHHH! Getting frustrating... organics, no organics .... and the debate continues. The lava and the bark retain quite a bit of moisture.... but I guess not enough. The pic below was taken of the soil just below the surface...have not watered yet today.
I was under the impression that using a heaver more moisture retentive soil would "cook" the roots.
I think I may have to just stick with elms and bougies!
View attachment 107529 View attachment 107530

Soil is too open and your siting is a problem. I'd also bet that wooden set up is contributing the heat sink problem. The pot isn't all that big, however. I'd still step it down a size or two in the future.

If this were my tree, I'd get it away from that wall (which is a heat source). the rocks and pots around it may also contribute the heat problem. I'd put the pot on the ground in the shade, wet it down and cover it with a wet towel until things cool down (relatively). The goal is to keep the root functioning and that means keeping them from heating up too much. I cover pots here in late July and August heat waves. I use old light colored T=shirts over the soil and pot sides. I wet them down every morning and remove them after the sun goes down and put them back on again if the forecast predicts temps over 90 or so.

Bald cypress, like many trees in the south, tend to enter a summer dormancy of sorts and stop growing. Don't know if MC does that, but I'd bet it might. the die back might be replaced when the weather lets up.

 

[AaronThomas]

I'd just leave it in the shade if you can and hope the wind doesn't come in to hard.

Put it under an overhanging patio in the house... no wind or sun except for about an hour of early morning.
It would be nice if it survived but Im thinking its a lost cause.

If this were my tree, I'd get it away from that wall

For my elm set up I actually covered the wall with wood slats.... will do the same for the MC if it survives. I have read that MC does go into summer dormancy as well.

 

[sorce]

A couple of my trees were wilty yesterday.

Recently moved to afternoon sun for the BBQ.

The soil was wet.
Wind is a Bitch.

And of course....the one tree I tucked behind a ground tree because I didn't want it ruined....
The kids busted the top!

No biggie!

I curse the wind more.

Sorce

 

[markyscott]

I'm not trying to turn this into yet another soil war, but I want to point out that Bald Cypress don't require potting soil and highly damp conditions to be grown successfully. I grow mine in the same open, inorganic mix in which I grow all my trees and they grow great - I've used heavy soils before as well and I have not seen any difference in vigor after having switched to inorganics. However, I do much prefer the way the roots develop. They're in the full sun and heat (and wind) and I've never have the kind of burnt foliage that Aaron describes. Although I don't grow MC, I seriously doubt it's the lack of organics that has caused the problem.

A - six weeks ago was mid April. You were already well into spring when you repotted. I know you're tendency is to pull the trigger, but I want to point out that is late for a repotting. Perhaps it tolerated the cooler conditions well enough, but when the heat and drying winds hit, the root system had not recovered sufficiently to efficiently deliver water to the leaves. Did you ever visit the nursery again? Were those leaves damaged?

I concur with the suggestions, though. Provide some shade and wind protection and give it a chance to recover. If that thing fits in one of those black mixing tubs, you might also consider putting the pot in that and filling the tub with water. You only need a couple of inches and the moisture will be drawn up into the pot by capillary action. I drill holes into the mixing tub a couple of inches above the bottom to avoid flooding the container entirely.

 

[rockm]

I'm not trying to turn this into yet another soil war, but I want to point out that Bald Cypress don't require potting soil and highly damp conditions to be grown successfully. I grow mine in the same open, inorganic mix in which I grow all my trees and they grow great - I've used heavy soils before as well and I have not seen any difference in vigor after having switched to inorganics. However, I do much prefer the way the roots develop. They're in the full sun and heat (and wind) and I've never have the kind of burnt foliage that Aaron describes. Although I don't grow MC, I seriously doubt it's the lack of organics that has caused the problem.

A - six weeks ago was mid April. You were already well into spring when you repotted. I know you're tendency is to pull the trigger, but I want to point out that is late for a repotting. Perhaps it tolerated the cooler conditions well enough, but when the heat and drying winds hit, the root system had not recovered sufficiently to efficiently deliver water to the leaves. Did you ever visit the nursery again? Were those leaves damaged?

Aaron is in Tucson, Arizona. BIG difference in humidity levels from Houston. An arid desert breeze blowing air that has maybe ten percent humidity in 108 degree temperatures will suck moisture out of a plant faster than it can replace it. I believe a coarse soil mix can complicate moisture uptake, as more air gets into the soil in addition to the heavy demand placed on a sparse root system. I also believe the cypress may not have had time to recover from the repotting.

 

[markyscott]

Aaron is in Tucson, Arizona. BIG difference in humidity levels from Houston. An arid desert breeze blowing air that has maybe ten percent humidity in 108 degree temperatures will suck moisture out of a plant faster than it can replace it. I believe a coarse soil mix can complicate moisture uptake, as more air gets into the soil in addition to the heavy demand placed on a sparse root system. I also believe the cypress may not have had time to recover from the repotting.

OK. I've never tried to grow Bald Cypress in Aaron's climate conditions, so I won't claim any expertise. But I think we agree that repotting in April would have been after the spring push. The conditions are no doubt stressful - perhaps it would have been better tolerated with its full spring root system.

 

[rockm]

OK. I've never tried to grow Bald Cypress in Aaron's climate conditions, so I won't claim any expertise. But I think we agree that repotting in April would have been after the spring push. The conditions are no doubt stressful - perhaps it would have been better tolerated with its full spring root system.

Oh, I definitely agree. I also think that the top should have been reduced at repotting, along with the root system. All that top foliage is probably a huge draw on the reduced root system.

I used to live in Arizona. As they say "it's a dry heat." Montezuma cypress, from what I can find, likes to grow along moist riverbanks in the desert and seasonally dry creekbeds from Tucson into Mexico. That environment is pretty specialized with deeper, moist, denser soils than the rest of the desert.

 

[AaronThomas]

A - six weeks ago was mid April. You were already well into spring when you repotted. I know you're tendency is to pull the trigger, but I want to point out that is late for a repotting

Aint that the truth! I remember when we spoke about this when I first got the tree... The nursery pot the tree was in was bulging at the bottom and there seemed to be very little soil in the pot. When I opened the pot it was a mess at the bottom with all kind of critters living in there. I did remove the bottom few inches of the root mass and got rid of the resident pests. And I agree April was the wrong time to repot.

Did you ever visit the nursery again? Were those leaves damaged?

Will be going tomorrow.

Provide some shade and wind protection and give it a chance to recover.

Done.

I also believe the cypress may not have had time to recover from the repotting.

Agreed. As I mentioned... the tree is pushing roots like crazy so hopefully this is just a temporary set back. Just being in the shade for a couple of hours... the bottom leaves have perked back up. Granted its only on a couple of branches.

I also think that the top should have been reduced at repotting

I'm assuming doing this at this point would further stress the tree.

 

[rockm]

That's good news. I don't think your tree is doomed. It will recover most likely. Bald cypress are incredibly resilient, as I'm sure MC is too. Wilting isn't going to kill the tree outright. Foliage is expendable and I'm relatively positive your tree will push new growth to replace it. That it's already perked up shows it's not gonna kick it...

I'd leave the top for now.

 

[GrimLore]

That Cypress is drought tolerant and "can" grow in your climate in the ground... Even in the ground though they do really good on river banks and such. Potted I am pretty certain it would do good with wet feet like you see many(as I do) with Bald Cypress. They don't need full sun grown potted, filtered sun will do just fine and cause you a lot less problems. There is some compensation when potting trees

Grimmy

 

[AaronThomas]

I don't think your tree is doomed. It will recover most likely

Keeping fingers crossed.... LOL those little needles really do make a mess and get everywhere!

That Cypress is drought tolerant and "can" grow in your climate in the ground

Definitely a plus around here!

They don't need full sun grown potted

I like the idea of that... ill need to create a new set up some where else in the yard. Way to hot this early on in the summer... bad sign of things to come. Good news looks like monsoon season will start this week!

 

[AaronThomas]

Ended up stopping by the nursery today… All of their trees look beautiful and lush. Although there in the sun they are grouped together and there are plenty of when breaks.

 

[rockm]

Note their pots are shaded by massing them together...

 

[AaronThomas]

That was supposed to say "wind break"... But I figure you got the point!

 

[M. Frary]

"negative Nancy"

Someone has to do it.