Metasequoia trunk development

[defra]

Hi in 2017 or 2018 i bought this pencil thick metasequoia seedling.
Ive been growing it to develop a trunk but at the moment i am wondering anout the next steps.

The ones i see growing outside the older trees all are realy tapered so that makes me wonder how to continue, if i just was let it grow will that come naturaly or am i just going to trunk chop it....
I want it to be straight and tapered before i will start thinking about branches.

If i trunk chop it i am afraid it will end up looking like this: (example from google)

Its not the end of the world but i kinda feel like it looses its natural feel for me with this species.
Ive tried to let a small branch that sprouted grow straight up by just guide it allong the trunk with a piece of wire but it died and now im wondering how to proceed.

Its up for a repot in spring 2025 to see how the roots develloped i expect i need at least 5 more years to reach the thicknes of trunk i want...
If anyone has experience or examples please share them with me!
(In the meantime ill search some info also on google and bnut)

This is my metasequoia to show where i am at its no longer a small stick but a large stick in a pot !

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I have seen a large one over 6 foot in a bonsai pot and it did taper, just not as extreme as we often see bonsai,

By the way for rapid growth and to avoid underwatering in summer, mine is submerged a couple of inches throughout the growing season, much like bald cypress and seems to love it

 

[raffaelbaer]

with tapering its always a process, of only chopping back when your trunk has the desired thicknes, because without use of any sacrifice branches or growth that is larger than the trunk itself, it wont thicken really much, I would work in placing the tree in a shallower (and larger) wooden growbox maybe, and working the nebari for the next years, once your trunk reaches sufficient thickness, you can cut it back. On your example tree (first image), the tree also needs to be turned clockwise again until the wound would be at the back so it is not that visible, which is common practice.

I will go out and search some threads for you here on bnut and list these here, bear with me a moment...

 

[raffaelbaer]

Heres some inspiration:

Thread

How youre tree COULD look in years to come, IF you take the correct steps developing it:



On this tree you can see, in the lower 2/3 theres really no taper at all, and only the upper 1/3 has taper, because there a new leader was wired up, left to grow and later cut at an angle in the back, to hide the scar.
Even though this tree doesnt qualify for the "general japanese bonsai guidelines" it still looks beautiful right?

Sometimes its about taste and in this case I think taper isnt soooo necessary, I mean shurely a bit, but not as exagerated.

All depends on the style of tree you want to create,

naturalistic (well, species wise, just styled like the species would grow in nature)
or
idealistic (highly tapered, wide branch pads, contorted)

Ever seen how dawn redwoods (Metasequoia glyptostroboides) or for that case even swamp cypress (Taxodium distichum) grow, they sometimes have no taper at all only until upper parts of the canopy.
Though they have other important characteristics like flutes in the trunk.

But in all cases, if you want a tree like this example above, dont overdue it, dont cut the lower branches, only if they develop inverse taper to much (coming out at same whorl on the trunk). You need to leave enough material you can sculpt your tree from later.

Hope this helps you to some extinct

Cheers
Raffael

 

[raffaelbaer]

[...] large one over 6 foot in a bonsai pot and it did taper, just not as extreme as we often see bonsai

Thats exactly what I mean!

 

[raffaelbaer]

Its always about do you want something in 5 years which looks meh or something in 10-15 years which looks astonishing...

 

[defra]

with tapering its always a process, of only chopping back when your trunk has the desired thicknes, because without use of any sacrifice branches or growth that is larger than the trunk itself, it wont thicken really much, I would work in placing the tree in a shallower (and larger) wooden growbox maybe, and working the nebari for the next years, once your trunk reaches sufficient thickness, you can cut it back. On your example tree (first image), the tree also needs to be turned clockwise again until the wound would be at the back so it is not that visible, which is common practice.

I will go out and search some threads for you here on bnut and list these here, bear with me a moment...

I know but to keep smaller wounds multiple chops down the way but this also create a little movement each time like my example picture.

Ill have to snap some pics of an old mature tree close by my house to show what i ment with this species and natural taper its realy nice tapered and there is no big branches at the bottom that have been cut off nor is it ever shaped or trunk chopped for bonsai.

 

[raffaelbaer]

Now to answer your other questions.

Ive been growing it to develop a trunk but at the moment i am wondering anout the next steps.

grow it on with more space to grow eg. growbox and work nebari every 2 years or if you want better results, however that takes longer to develop. Every Year, though you just have to refine the nebari and not totally cut the roots back every time, also the old soil can be reused.

The ones i see growing outside the older trees all are realy tapered so that makes me wonder how to continue, if i just was let it grow will that come naturaly or am i just going to trunk chop it....

Taper wont come naturally, atleast if you dont plan to let your tree get 20-30 meters tall... I would go for middleground meaning everything I descriped in the above posts (the example tree I showed).

I want it to be straight and tapered before i will start thinking about branches.

Thats correct (developing trunk first, then branches), though I would check for at least once a year in fall looking for any faulty branches or as I stated above branches that create inverse taper or a out of scale of the tree, and work these problems out.

 

[raffaelbaer]

Oh and also on youre example tree, if the person wanted to create a formal upright, Japanese style, the new leader would have been wired much more of a straigh upward angle, since you dont want to see any curves in formal upright.

 

[raffaelbaer]

I know but to keep smaller wounds multiple chops down the way but this also create a little movement each time like my example picture.

Ill have to snap some pics of an old mature tree close by my house to show what i ment with this species and natural taper its realy nice tapered and there is no big branches at the bottom that have been cut off nor is it ever shaped or trunk chopped for bonsai.

shure get pictures of the example tree you have in mind, then we can together think about a development plan for the tree! Would love it!

 

[defra]

Oh and also on youre example tree, if the person wanted to create a formal upright, Japanese style, the new leader would have been wired much more of a straigh upward angle, since you dont want to see any curves in formal upright.

Yes this is why i ask the question basicly.
I know the principles of growing trunks and chopping but with this species the mature trees ive seen are all dead straight and still realy tapered so i wonder if the taper comes naturaly on this species ill try take a picture when im home!

 

[raffaelbaer]

Yes this is why i ask the question basicly.
I know the principles of growing trunks and chopping but with this species the mature trees ive seen are all dead straight and still realy tapered so i wonder if the taper comes naturaly on this species ill try take a picture when im home!

awesome, going to look forward to them.

I think on dawn redwood you often see the flutes beeing the main driver of a tapered trunk (at least down low)

See these, its almost only the roots that taper to the trunk, or I would rather say basal root flare...

 

[Shibui]

I've also tried for really straight trunks on Metasequoia. Wiring a flexible new shoot to the trunk prior to chopping is the best I've been able to manage so far. Don't give up after one failure. It will work.
Even wiring a small shoot up gives a very slight step forwards in the trunk but that will gradually grow out as the trunk thickens and is only really obvious from the side.
The only other technique I have contemplated but not yet implemented is getting the new leader as close to vertical as possible then after it has strengthened a bit, carve out just below the junction enough to bend the junction back to take out the kink. Not sure if that will actually work or not.

Encouraging lateral roots will definitely help with basal flare - as it does in most species. Basal flare is good, but not exactly the same as good trunk taper.

 

[defra]

awesome, going to look forward to them.

I think on dawn redwood you often see the flutes beeing the main driver of a tapered trunk (at least down low)

See these, its almost only the roots that taper to the trunk, or I would rather say basal root flare...

View attachment 573259View attachment 573260

This is more or less the same as i see, so without a chop and lots of growing taper will come from the roots then Just shorten the trunk to where apex starts once this is achieved, i said 5 years but if it takes more it takes more.

I've also tried for really straight trunks on Metasequoia. Wiring a flexible new shoot to the trunk prior to chopping is the best I've been able to manage so far. Don't give up after one failure. It will work.
Even wiring a small shoot up gives a very slight step forwards in the trunk but that will gradually grow out as the trunk thickens and is only really obvious from the side.
The only other technique I have contemplated but not yet implemented is getting the new leader as close to vertical as possible then after it has strengthened a bit, carve out just below the junction enough to bend the junction back to take out the kink. Not sure if that will actually work or not.

Encouraging lateral roots will definitely help with basal flare - as it does in most species. Basal flare is good, but not exactly the same as good trunk taper.

Yeah i was not going to give up on it but was Just wondering if i can get decent or close to same result using the tree's natural growth habit.
Maybe i need to airlayer a branch or root a cutting and Just try out both ways

 

[raffaelbaer]

Basal flare is good, but not exactly the same as good trunk taper.

Thats correct!

 

[defra]

I have seen a large one over 6 foot in a bonsai pot and it did taper, just not as extreme as we often see bonsai,

By the way for rapid growth and to avoid underwatering in summer, mine is submerged a couple of inches throughout the growing season, much like bald cypress and seems to love it

Yeah they do like their water!
Mine is in this big pot and in summer i water two or three times a Day i used pure clay pellets, i usualy mix that with pumice lava zeolite but in this case i didnt because the pellets hold allot of water for other species that is to much water retention
I forgot who mentioned a more shallow pot i got that already waiting for coming spring

 

[raffaelbaer]

I forgot who mentioned a more shallow pot i got that already waiting for coming spring

The shallower pot was my idea, but grow box of course so shallow but large volume (length and width), anderson flat would also work well...

 

[Shibui]

The shallower pot was my idea, but grow box of course so shallow but large volume (length and width), anderson flat would also work well...

Shallow pot is not always necessary. The key is more about room for lateral roots to spread and concentrating growth into those surface roots and discouraging down roots. Good root pruning can give exactly the same results in deeper pots or in the ground.

 

[raffaelbaer]

Shallow pot is not always necessary. The key is more about room for lateral roots to spread and concentrating growth into those surface roots and discouraging down roots. Good root pruning can give exactly the same results in deeper pots or in the ground.

shure, with shallow I meant something like 10-15cm (4 inches - 6 inches) - depth max, though I prefer something arround 10cm. Basically as you've said, if you do recurring root work, yearly or every 2-3 years, with pruning bottom roots it will give the same result, though I tend to like shallower wider pots better, because if the bottom is mesh (anderson flat or custom growbox), the roots can extend out into the ground (effectively giving the tree more vigour due to increased soil volume) and once a year (or when you pull trees in winter storage), you just have to go through with a sichel and cut anything growing down (what you would have to do anyway if youre moving a tree to a different spot). Rootwork then in spring isnt so heavy then because the root ball had time to reestablish itself with finer roots inside the cotainer... Really like this approach since I've tried it.

 

[Cajunrider]

Heres some inspiration:

Thread

How youre tree COULD look in years to come, IF you take the correct steps developing it:

View attachment 573258

On this tree you can see, in the lower 2/3 theres really no taper at all, and only the upper 1/3 has taper, because there a new leader was wired up, left to grow and later cut at an angle in the back, to hide the scar.
Even though this tree doesnt qualify for the "general japanese bonsai guidelines" it still looks beautiful right?

Sometimes its about taste and in this case I think taper isnt soooo necessary, I mean shurely a bit, but not as exagerated.

All depends on the style of tree you want to create,

naturalistic (well, species wise, just styled like the species would grow in nature)
or
idealistic (highly tapered, wide branch pads, contorted)

Ever seen how dawn redwoods (Metasequoia glyptostroboides) or for that case even swamp cypress (Taxodium distichum) grow, they sometimes have no taper at all only until upper parts of the canopy.
Though they have other important characteristics like flutes in the trunk.

But in all cases, if you want a tree like this example above, dont overdue it, dont cut the lower branches, only if they develop inverse taper to much (coming out at same whorl on the trunk). You need to leave enough material you can sculpt your tree from later.

Hope this helps you to some extinct

Cheers
Raffael

I believe that both Metasequoia glyptostroboides and Taxodium distichum can be developed to have strong taper in bonsai pot. If you are willing to take time (15 years or more), you can have that strong taper without the big chop scars.
In my case, I chose to accept the chop scar to shorten the development time.