Lonely Zundert Mugo - Thoughts on design and a couple questions.

[Deep Sea Diver]

Last Christmas I spotted a lonely Mugo Pine in the 1/2 price nursery section of the locally owned hardware store. It was almost nightfall, but I thought there might be some possibilities in this tree. I knew something was up when the gardener thanked me for buying the tree. It seems it had been there for quite a long time.

I immediately dug it into the ground, pot and all, and forgot about it. In late February early March I took it out of the ground put It in the cold frame and waited. Things started warming up quickly, so I decided to pot it up. That went smoothly... lots of roots, trimmed about 30% or so of the roots and potted it in Boone’s mix. Since then all I did to it was water, fertilize (lots) and candle prune. It’s popping new buds already.

At his point I’m wanting to get some more input on the design. I was thinking a low cut. @Leo in N E Illinois thought down to 1st or 2nd whorl. Here’s full photos from all sides, also 3 photos from around the base. Please let me know what you think.

My follow up question: Once my design is determined how much can I safely cut....and is this good timing for a chop?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[0soyoung]

Cut anytime between now (that new foliage is hardened) and Sep ought to produce lots of back budding.

The new foliage is the most productive, so the longer you keep it the stronger the tree gets. With mugos, one can cut off all this year's growth just like decandling a JBP (but it won't reflush, just new buds) and it will usually back bud all over the place (never quite where you want, though!). Otherwise, it is pretty much like any other pine.

There is a collected wisdom of Vance Wood on BNut. You may want to check that out.

 

[Adair M]

Rather than “chop”, think about “cutting back”. Find places where 3 branches intersect, and remove one. It’s usually the center one, but not always. Cut to shorten internodes.

 

[Waldo]

I would agree with Adair. your tree has great movement . I think it would make a great informal upright. I Bought a very similar mugo a few months ago. I removed about 2/3 of the root mass. I removed a few branches,
cleaned it up and repotted it. This is the initial style. A similar shaped trunk. So, if you are interested in this kind of form. It's an idea. I think this is similar to what Adair is suggesting. Not a finished tree by any means. please post progress. Good luck with it.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thanks for the great ideas and information. I’m in the third reading of Vance Woods advice now. It’s good stuff!
At this point I figured I’d go out and prune and see what looks speaks to me. Here’s what the trees looks like now. Full view, two views...



I can clearly see a solid informal upright in this Mugo pine..... yet it’s pretty leggy between the internodes, got a knob where the branch spoke can in and the taper in the trunk is there, but very gradual.... it doesn’t appear to be speaking to me yet.... looking at what the tree would look like if cut half way down....

Now this is starting to speak... I could work with this.... looking close down low now.... looking at two sides





I really like the thought of chopping to above the first wheel or the branch to make the thicker branch a top and hope for some back budding to help with branch reduction.

Hmm... at this point I’m thinking I should cut 1/2 way and see what kind of budding I get.

Any thoughts?
DSD sends

 

[Waldo]

I think your will find that with much of that foliage removed it will back bud for your . Right now mine are back budding like crazy. I am following Vance Woods recommendations as well as some of Walter Palls suggestions regarding Mugos. I have organic fertilizer on my Mugos, Sumo Cakes. I also supplement with chemical fertilizers , Miracle grow. I am using a heavier concentration than the package recommends .
Seems to be working well. The trees all seem very happy and have lots of vigor and energy to back bud. I think the area where you have cut a large branch, about 2/3 of the way up would be a good place to train one of the branches at that location into a new leader. Also you have a lot of bar branches. In this photo of yours I think you could remove the lower right branch. Giving more emphasis to the branch on the left. I would also start bending branches down while they are still, relatively flexible. Fertilize, and monitor your watering closely. The one thing that Vance has convinced me of, is that these little trees are very forgiving. They will tolerate a lot. Again, good luck with it. Back budding in the next few years will advise you. Study the styling of other trees that may be similar to yours for styling ideas.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I did a partial cut back to see how it would look at this point. Then wired everything. Will wait to back bud to see my options. At this point I’m thinking I will take off at least the top three branches and maybe one more. I’m liking the idea of the “smashed flat by truck” idea still.
Onwards!
DSD sends

 

[Vance Wood]

I did a partial cut back to see how it would look at this point. Then wired everything. Will wait to back bud to see my options. At this point I’m thinking I will take off at least the top three branches and maybe one more. I’m liking the idea of the “smashed flat by truck” idea still.
Onwards!
DSD sends
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If this were my tree I would leave it alone for a year or two to see what you get in the way of back budding. As it is now it does appear to be at risk due to lack of solar panels to support the tree, In other words you removed way too much to be safe.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Uh oh! Thanks for the heads up! I guess it’s time to get out and pray to the Forest gods!

It’s been in partial sun with regular water and slow release fertilizer at this point.

Would you recommend any thing else to help?
DSD sends

 

[Vance Wood]

Uh oh! Thanks for the heads up! I guess it’s time to get out and pray to the Forest gods!

It’s been in partial sun with regular water and slow release fertilizer at this point.

Would you recommend any thing else to help?
DSD sends

The only positive thing yu could do right now is try to post a better picture/pictures where the details of the tree are not blasted out by the clutered and light dominant back ground. No one can give you an honest opinion of your tree if they cannot see it, in your current picture it looks like you have removed all of the folieage off one side of the tree.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

So sorry about! I’m usually a bit better, but two days out of surgery punchy today. I got the better half to help.... hope these give a better view! Best DSD sends

 

[Vance Wood]

So sorry about! I’m usually a bit better, but two days out of surgery punchy today. I got the better half to help.... hope these give a better view! Best DSD sends
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Believe me I know about surgery, had two this year myself and still have not returned to normal even if that is an achievable goal. I still hold to my advise; let the tree grow for a couple of years and see where it goes. You have to give this tree an opportunity to grow into itself and restore it't vigor. The tree needs time to grow out from all the cut backs. I think eventually you are going to want to remove the lower branches but don't do this until you have some really vigorous growth above second set of branches. I've been known to cut trees back only to let them sit for a couple of years. This year I did two of them that have been works in progress for years. One of them is almost a finished approach, but the other two need more time. Here is the painful truth: Sometimes it is not the tree that has to grow but the grower. The grower needs to digest his acquired knowledge, obtain vision, and develop new skills to work with the new skills and knowledge. Sometimes that means going only so far as his vision, skill and knowledge will allow him and letting the tree rest while the grower grows. You can always find another tree and work it outward to the same point. No one says much about cultivating the person that grows bonsai, or trys to assist in accomplishing that end.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

So sorry to hear that! It’s my secondthis year too.
Thanks again for the advice. The lonely Zundert will be left alone to grow out until at least 2022.
Stay well
DSD sends

 

[doctorater]

"... Sometimes it is not the tree that has to grow but the grower. The grower needs to digest his acquired knowledge, obtain vision, and develop new skills to work with the new skills and knowledge. Sometimes that means going only so far as his vision, skill and knowledge will allow him and letting the tree rest while the grower grows."

Advice that speaks deeply to me as I try to learn the necessary patience to get better at creating bonsai.

 

[Vance Wood]

"... Sometimes it is not the tree that has to grow but the grower. The grower needs to digest his acquired knowledge, obtain vision, and develop new skills to work with the new skills and knowledge. Sometimes that means going only so far as his vision, skill and knowledge will allow him and letting the tree rest while the grower grows."

Advice that speaks deeply to me as I try to learn the necessary patience to get better at creating bonsai.

Go get another Mugo and try again.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Go get another Mugo and try again.

Yep, gotta get back on that bike! Will be looking for another soon.
Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Here is the Lonely Mugo after another winter. Looks like it got a bit dry in its wintering over spot. Ugh, it was away from the rest due to space availability. I’ve hit it with copper a couple times in the past month, like all the others just in case.

The good news is that its back budding like a banshee!



Plans for the future is more of the same. Feed it up all year Osmocote Plus and at least every two weeks of Fish emulsion and Cal Mag and find a better wintering over situation.

Also get some copper wire and look for another Mugo victim, I mean tree.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Potawatomi13]

Noticing tree in Bonsai pot already WHY? Determined to keep small trunk? Do not see great movement in trunk yet just "some" near bigger bottom part. After grow out and trunk growth to bigger size would cut back to 2nd main branch from base. Current pruning has set back development at least 2 years. As to "Wintering" spot should be fully exposed your zone with natural rain to water then no problem. Patience. Hardest lesson to learn but in Bonsai must be done.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Some good questions.

1. It was the biggest pot available at the time and I didn’t have an Anderson flat around. Are you suggesting I slip pot it in an Anderson flat to increase the caliber now? I can do that as the weather is still cool.

2. Rewiring late this year to avoid trashing buds to see if movement can be amped up then.

3. Yeah, the pruning was excessively exuberant as @Vance Wood pointed out, I took it too far. A real rookie mistake. Luckily the tree bounced back, which is another reason to work with Mugo! Very forgiving.

4. Thanks. The tree was outside dug in ground to just below the pot rim with large wood chips underneath for drainage, on top the same. The issue was my not watering enough as the location is the coldest, darkest, most remote location in my yard. So I think it’s ‘frost bitten’. Next year I’ll winter over somewhere near all the other conifers (which have seemingly increased lately! Astonishing.) So far I’ve been really successful wintering over all trees. The new location just didn’t work out at all.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

The tree today. It’s on the shelf this winter for use in gathering media temperature data



Upcoming events if all goes well appear to be a hard cut down and possibly a repot in an Anderson flat for a couple years to work on the roots and push the growth.

Cheers
DSD sends