Last (ever?) Mirai Tree Sale

[Wood]

That isnt what he said. Its great that youre watching though, this stuff should be shared more.

It is not what he said, but it really felt like what you were trying to say by divorcing his quote from the context of the video

I think the main issue is that most people tend to reset the tree too damn often, instead of reading into the tree and figuring out where to take it from there.

100% agree

 

[BobbyLane]

It is not what he said, but it really felt like what you were trying to say by divorcing his quote from the context of the video



100% agree

Maybe youre reading into it too much, im just highlighting a few quick snippets that resonated with me.

 

[clem]

Guess they didn't like our discussion, they removed all bid info after the auction close...

Landing page just says "sold out" and clicking into the tree details just has the market value.

Too bad, I would have liked to know if the 2nd auction was as successful as the 1st. Just curious ^^

 

[clem]

The point is that the tree has LOCAL HISTORY with notable bonsai figures. The same kind of attachment comes with more well known figures. If someone said a tree was developed by John Naka, Yujji Yoshimura, Nick Lenz, Vaughn Banting you would not blink an eye paying extra. Just because this tree’s genetic lineage may not adhere to strict parameters doesn’t mean it’s some kind of rip off. Local bonsai figures who have fostered LOCAL bonsai back when it wasn’t fashionable are worth remembering. They’ve left a legacy on that community regardless of what “outsiders” think. John Naka was one of those “local” figures to begin with after all.

I have a friend who lives in Japan and who explained to me that the entry into the list of "important bonsai masterpiece" (Kichou Bonsai) is not only based on aesthetic criteria, but also on culture (for example a species that is difficult to cultivate and branch out, and which has nevertheless reached a high aesthetic level) and history (for example, a tree that belonged to a shogun)... I suppose that the historical context, in the West, is less important than in Japan where we have been growing trees in pots for a very, very long time...

 

[shohin_branches]

I have a friend who lives in Japan and who explained to me that the entry into the list of "important bonsai masterpiece" (Kichou Bonsai) is not only based on aesthetic criteria, but also on culture (for example a species that is difficult to cultivate and branch out, and which has nevertheless reached a high aesthetic level) and history (for example, a tree that belonged to a shogun)... I suppose that the historical context, in the West, is less important than in Japan where we have been growing trees in pots for a very, very long time...

Having money also doesn't mean that tree is going to the place where it will receive the best care. If the tree is actually culturally important it would be best to do through a private sale so the seller can vet the ability of the buyer to keep it alive. Selling it in an open online auction from someone this connected make it clear that the seller is not worried about potentially losing it as a cultural object.

 

[Potawatomi13]

as in, at home? Eugene OR?

Indeed

 

[Forestcat]

Azalea went for around $15,000. I am an azalea nut, but sometimes I think it's a different world on the azalea planet.

 

[Forestcat]

Having money also doesn't mean that tree is going to the place where it will receive the best care. If the tree is actually culturally important it would be best to do through a private sale so the seller can vet the ability of the buyer to keep it alive. Selling it in an open online auction from someone this connected make it clear that the seller is not worried about potentially losing it as a cultural object.

Although once the tree leaves the sellers hands, there is no rock solid guarantee that nothing will happen to it. People die, lose collections through fire or storms; in other words, life happens. I would think that anyone willing to pay this price for a tree is no dilettante.

 

[rockm]

I have a friend who lives in Japan and who explained to me that the entry into the list of "important bonsai masterpiece" (Kichou Bonsai) is not only based on aesthetic criteria, but also on culture (for example a species that is difficult to cultivate and branch out, and which has nevertheless reached a high aesthetic level) and history (for example, a tree that belonged to a shogun)... I suppose that the historical context, in the West, is less important than in Japan where we have been growing trees in pots for a very, very long time...

I think you will find that much the same is true in the west. Tree species that are scarce or species that can be cranky to grow particularly outside their native ranges (the U.S. has every climate zone on the planet from arctic to tropical) are values as are extreme age. Some of the native confers being taken out of the intermountain western states which have clocked in at five centuries or more, are also valuable at auction. Provenance can add to a trees value particularly if it belonged to someone like John Naka, Yuiji Yoshimura, Nick Lenz, Mary Madison or Jim Smith.

 

[shohin_branches]

Although once the tree leaves the sellers hands, there is no rock solid guarantee that nothing will happen to it. People die, lose collections through fire or storms; in other words, life happens. I would think that anyone willing to pay this price for a tree is no dilettante.

I've been very surprised at how much money some beginners will drop on trees before they even know the basics. They think it's the same as caring for a philodendron.

 

[badatusernames]

If I recall correctly, Kimura told Ryan that to come to the states and not change bonsai as it is right now would have been a waste of an apprenticeship. Pretty much what Kimura did for bonsai in Japan.

I think the main issue is that most people tend to reset the tree too damn often, instead of reading into the tree and figuring out where to take it from there. The main example of this here is @MACH5 Sergio, every tree that I have seen him take over is not chopped to a stump and start over. Is looking at what is there and enhancing it. I think this is where Ryan methodology is slightly if not entirely different from most traditional work out there.

I think it was Kobayashi who said American bonsai was like “garbage at the bottom of a toilet” so if Kimura felt the same then yes, not changing American bonsai would have been a real shame haha

Going to be honest, I’m on the “emperors new clothes” side of the maple discussion. I wonder if Naka had any unimpressive young projects going when he died, and what happened to them…

 

[Shogun610]

Damn I missed this lmao