Large Trident Maple

[Rodrigo]

@Smoke, I was reading your blog about the trident maple that had no growth on the lower trunk and was risk of losing the right side. Do you know what ended up happening to it?

The reason I ask is because I realized my trident may be in a similar situation.



I was planning on thread grafting that lower shoot to the outside of the curve before chopping the top but after reading your blog I'm not so sure. Would it be a better idea to chop above the first set of buds instead to see what where it back buds lower down?

 

[Smoke]

That wasn't my tree. It was a guy here that wished to argue rather than listen to someone that knows what they were talking about. Yours looks to be already dead on that side. Bark peeling off and roots starting to show telling me the root hairs are gone. I highly doubt a graft will take there. But... what have you got to lose right? Try everything. Throw the sky at it and see what sticks....good luck.

 

[Rodrigo]

That wasn't my tree. It was a guy here that wished to argue rather than listen to someone that knows what they were talking about. Yours looks to be already dead on that side. Bark peeling off and roots starting to show telling me the root hairs are gone. I highly doubt a graft will take there. But... what have you got to lose right? Try everything. Throw the sky at it and see what sticks....good luck.

Thanks Al. What would you have done if it was yours?

You're right though, I'll go ahead and give the thread graft a try nect weekend and hope for the best. Follow up question, what happens if the graft is still taking/not ready yet but the next extention of trunk gets thick enough and needs to be chopped? Would I chop above that node so it doesn't get too thick Or do you not forsee it getting too thick this year anyways?

 

[Smoke]

Lets break this down into parts.

1. Leaves and twigs power a tree.
2. If you chop a tree it will push new growth.
3. if you choose a leader and cut off all the engine it will suffer.
4. One needs a trunk full of small shoots before chopping.

So look at your tree.
Below the chop there is nothing growing. There is not one shoot to support the trunk after the beheading. If there was, one shoot was kept as the new leader and the others removed. Those that were removed would have nourished that side of the trunk while the chosen shoot was allowed to lengthen.

Chopping a tree is a game of chance that can be thought out in advance. Allow the tree to shoot out profusely the year before the chop. How do we do that?

Reduce the tree by half in year one. In year two when there are many shoots all around the tree and it is healthy, make the chop. Allow everything to grow. You can control the shoots you aren't going to keep by reducing, but do not remove. The next year, year three one can be more selective in the branches, but always remember removal of branches on more than 270 degrees of trunk will cause that part of the trunk to wither. There is just nothing to keep it going.

It also means that rootage on that part will die and it means that you can never develop a 360 degree nebari. Also grafting will not take and buds will never develop. The base of the tree will start to compartmentalize and a hollow will develop vertically. After a few years it will be easy to see which part of the trunk is alive and which part is dead.
In this picture the part of the trunk on the right circled is the old pipe before it was chopped. No shoots on the trunk to support it, no branches, no nothing.


The part on the left of the circled hollow is the new pipe being supported by the extension of the new leader, and the foliage above it. Had the hacker allowed the tree to shoot by a half tree reduction prior to chopping, and leaving that foliage for a year, the right side would still be alive. Then you can build a better nebari and have some branching lower on the trunk. Always better to remove later then to be baffled by how to put it on???


This guy claimed to be the trident maple expert...........sigh

 

[Smoke]

I tried to draw my line just to the right of the damage. There is a crease in the trunk and one can look at the trunk and trace the dead part and the live part.

Just like exposing deadwood on a juniper and things like that, people ask how do you know where to cut and what you can cut and not kill the tree. If you wish to find live veins in your tree, start at the roots, especially if you have some exposed. The largest ones on top of the soil are probably the strongest roots. Clean the bark and then wet it. On a deciduous tree if you clean the bark real well and wet it wait about three or four minutes and the live parts will turn greenish in color. The dead parts will stay the same color. It may change color some, but it will be weaker than the live part. It will stay green for years but will always be declining.

 

[Smoke]

I tried to draw my line just to the right of the damage. There is a crease in the trunk and one can look at the trunk and trace the dead part and the live part.

Just like exposing deadwood on a juniper and things like that, people ask how do you know where to cut and what you can cut and not kill the tree. If you wish to find live veins in your tree, start at the roots, especially if you have some exposed. The largest ones on top of the soil are probably the strongest roots. Clean the bark and then wet it. On a deciduous tree if you clean the bark real well and wet it wait about three or four minutes and the live parts will turn greenish in color. The dead parts will stay the same color. It may change color some, but it will be weaker than the live part. It will stay green for years but will always be declining.

Sorry, forgot the photo

 

[Rodrigo]

First of all thank you for taking the time to write out that explination, it makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately I bought the tree having already been chopped and the new extention grown out most of the way so I had no control over what shoots were kept. I always figured I'd be able to graft something down there so that sucks to hear. I guess I'll have to rethink this tree.

Reduce the tree by half in year one. In year two when there are many shoots all around the tree and it is healthy, make the chop. Allow everything to grow.

I actually reduced the tree in half last March and it helped to strengthen the lower shoots but did not make anything lower pop. Here is a picture of it right after chopping while being repotted into the pot its in now


Pretty much everything above that first twist was last year's growth.

Clean the bark and then wet it. On a deciduous tree if you clean the bark real well and wet it wait about three or four minutes and the live parts will turn greenish in color. The dead parts will stay the same color.

I'm out of town for the weekend but I'll check this out when I get back and see if I can figure out what's what. Hopefully I get lucky but looking at your pictures along with your explination I don't have much hope. Maybe I can turn into a hollowed trunk simulating a lightning strike or something?

 

[Rodrigo]

Update on this thread.
Last year I went ahead and chopped the first portion of the leader to try and push buds further down the trunk that I could work with. Here it is before and then after the chop in 2019





This past weekend was repotting time--last time it was repotted was March 2018. It grew quite well after the chop and luckly a bud actually popped pretty close to, if not exactly where I was hoping for one! Hopefully I'll be able to build the next trunk section from that!

Here it is after a year after the chop, right before repotting




Pot prepped and ready for the next growing season


My phone died half way through the repot so I couldn't take more pictures but here is it repotted and ready to go. The new bud is circled in red. I buried it a little deeper than it was for now and will lower the soil level in the future again


I chopped off the leader and the top portion of the trunk now that I have another bud down below. The new thick leader is growing on the opposite side of the chop, not from the sealed cut itself. Any recommendations on whether I should cut the top shoots lower to force more growth lower or if that's good for now?

 

[Rodrigo]

I decided to go ahead and cut back the thick shoot in the back, making the thinner one in the front the new leader in hopes of pushing more buds down low rather than that thick shoot taking off.


You can see it's just now starting to show some green on some of the buds.

 

[jonathanvperth]

Nice work

Personally I would put it in a grow bag. That is extremely unimpressive growth. This rate you’ll have a nice trunk in 15 years!!

These pics are one seasons growth