Large Maple Air Layer- A whole new world

[LuZiKui]

Recently moved up to the New England area and got rid of most of my plants so it's time to start some new projects. Previously, I found that I had some money and time, but no space. Since we just purchased a house, I find myself with tons of space, a little less time, but no money. So, it's time for some free projects!

We have a nice looking Japanese maple tree in our back yard. The previous owners allowed it to get a little leggy so I'm planning on cutting it back next year to make it more compact. I was looking at the tree and the three main trunks are all parallel so I'll likely cut one of them off. I've seen some people doing large maple air layers so I figured might be a good way to get some decent (albeit a little boring) starter material, and more importantly it will work within my budget

As I'm brand new to maples just curious if anyone has any feedback or advice. The leaves seem relatively small so I'm assuming it'll make an OK bonsai? There are no shoots on this portion of the tree, will it backbud at some point? I've started reading through some of the other threads on air layers so I'll probably start them next spring and hope they are good for removal by fall.

The tree:


Close up of foliage:


The branch I'm planning on removing, 1st air layer around here:



This junction is about 2 feet higher on the same branch, maybe a second air layer here?

 

[KateM]

Recently moved up to the New England area and got rid of most of my plants so it's time to start some new projects. Previously, I found that I had some money and time, but no space. Since we just purchased a house, I find myself with tons of space, a little less time, but no money. So, it's time for some free projects!

We have a nice looking Japanese maple tree in our back yard. The previous owners allowed it to get a little leggy so I'm planning on cutting it back next year to make it more compact. I was looking at the tree and the three main trunks are all parallel so I'll likely cut one of them off. I've seen some people doing large maple air layers so I figured might be a good way to get some decent (albeit a little boring) starter material, and more importantly it will work within my budget

As I'm brand new to maples just curious if anyone has any feedback or advice. The leaves seem relatively small so I'm assuming it'll make an OK bonsai? There are no shoots on this portion of the tree, will it backbud at some point? I've started reading through some of the other threads on air layers so I'll probably start them next spring and hope they are good for removal by fall.

The tree:
View attachment 566210

Close up of foliage:
View attachment 566211

The branch I'm planning on removing, 1st air layer around here:

View attachment 566212

This junction is about 2 feet higher on the same branch, maybe a second air layer here?

View attachment 566213

Congrats on the move and return to the hobby.
I never did JM airlayers myself, but seen Peter Chan's YouTube vid where he had large branches airlayered successfully.
From my experiences:
- large successful air layer is rather hard to stabilize/immobilize after it's separated and put in its own pot. How tall is that branch/trunk over the suggested cut line?
- I would start with the top one where if forks (your 2nd air layer). Looks like it has a smaller branch close to the cut line. Also, if a tree is prone to backbudding on old wood, the higher cut might stimulate the trunk below to pop buds.
Just something to think about.
And a disclaimer - my experience is limited...
I am sure you'll get more and more useful feedback.

 

[gooeytek]

That's gonna be huge.

It might be difficult to safely cut the layer off after the roots have developed, that's always been my biggest fear with trying a large airlayer.

 

[LuZiKui]

large successful air layer is rather hard to stabilize/immobilize after it's separated and put in its own pot. How tall is that branch/trunk over the suggested cut line?

Oh yeah, I can see that being an issue, good thing to think about.

It's pretty tall above the cut line, probably like 20+ feet? It's a main trunk so I think there are branches that extend from that trunk all the way to the top of the canopy of the tree.

 

[KateM]

Oh yeah, I can see that being an issue, good thing to think about.

It's pretty tall above the cut line, probably like 20+ feet? It's a main trunk so I think there are branches that extend from that trunk all the way to the top of the canopy of the tree.

Right, that was my concern besides stability issue. They say you need leaves to grow roots, but if you take a 20' tall air layer off of the tree and need to cut it down to keep it upright in a pot, will there be enough leaves left?
I know it's going to make it longer, but maybe cut back the tree a bit higher than you want (as this is your plan anyway), ecpecially that middle trunk. See if it buds up, let the new shoots grow until leaves harden off and then air layer?
That's where my mind goes...

 

[LuZiKui]

Right, that was my concern besides stability issue. They say you need leaves to grow roots, but if you take a 20' tall air layer off of the tree and need to cut it down to keep it upright in a pot, will there be enough leaves left?
I know it's going to make it longer, but maybe cut back the tree a bit higher than you want (as this is your plan anyway), ecpecially that middle trunk. See if it buds up, let the new shoots grow until leaves harden off and then air layer?
That's where my mind goes...

Thanks, I needed someone to talk some sense into me, I think I'm trying to run before I walk... that's probably the way to do it. I just couldn't help myself from making the classic beginners mistake of BIG TRUNK=BIG INSTANT BONSAI.

I'll take a look higher up that trunk for good air layers above it and start working my way down the trunk over the next couple of years. Maybe this big boy will be ready for an air layer in a couple of years.

 

[BrianBay9]

First off, it will take forever to develop credible limbs if you take the air layer at your lower mark. Use the upper one. Leave all the canopy above it until the roots develop. Before separation, reduce the height of the tree above the layer to a manageable level, but leave some foliage. Last, separate the layer.

Good luck. Looks like fun.

 

[sdavis]

Is this a joke?

 

[BrianBay9]

Thanks, I needed someone to talk some sense into me, I think I'm trying to run before I walk... that's probably the way to do it. I just couldn't help myself from making the classic beginners mistake of BIG TRUNK=BIG INSTANT BONSAI.

I'll take a look higher up that trunk for good air layers above it and start working my way down the trunk over the next couple of years. Maybe this big boy will be ready for an air layer in a couple of years.

The problem with high air layers is hauling out a ladder every time you want to water or check on it.

 

[August44]

Is this a joke?

I was wondering the same thing. Guess not, but I would sure tackle a much smaller and more manageable part of the tree to be successful.

 

[Ruddigger]

Congrats on the move. Thats a nice backyard ya got now.

 

[eugenev2]

Recently moved up to the New England area and got rid of most of my plants so it's time to start some new projects. Previously, I found that I had some money and time, but no space. Since we just purchased a house, I find myself with tons of space, a little less time, but no money. So, it's time for some free projects!

We have a nice looking Japanese maple tree in our back yard. The previous owners allowed it to get a little leggy so I'm planning on cutting it back next year to make it more compact. I was looking at the tree and the three main trunks are all parallel so I'll likely cut one of them off. I've seen some people doing large maple air layers so I figured might be a good way to get some decent (albeit a little boring) starter material, and more importantly it will work within my budget

As I'm brand new to maples just curious if anyone has any feedback or advice. The leaves seem relatively small so I'm assuming it'll make an OK bonsai? There are no shoots on this portion of the tree, will it backbud at some point? I've started reading through some of the other threads on air layers so I'll probably start them next spring and hope they are good for removal by fall.

The tree:
View attachment 566210

Close up of foliage:
View attachment 566211

The branch I'm planning on removing, 1st air layer around here:

View attachment 566212

This junction is about 2 feet higher on the same branch, maybe a second air layer here?

View attachment 566213

From my airlayer experience i would say...that's a big no no...unless you have a nursery's staff to help you out like Mr chan. I recently did a airlayer on a buddleja saligna...which i thought was a ok size, at probably 1/2 or 1/3 the width of this tree and about only 6 feet tall...big mistake it was extremely difficult to remove and position as a one man job and i think i ended taring some of the layer's roots off. We'll see if it dies. Personally i would look for much smaller branches with more interest, to the left of the first picture with a blue line there seem to be two branches with curves in them, those might make better material (without having a good view of them).
Another personal suggestion, it might be better to reduce the tree anyway and then observer how this variety reacts to major cutbacks whether it backbuds nicely. Then when you do do your airlayers you would have more informed information of how the tree actually react

 

[Mats Hagström]

I agree with what has been said so far. If you don’t have experience then start with branches about 1/2-1” diameter. It’s also a little late in the season to be able to seperate this year. Not sure you will be able to leave the layer until next year with winter temperatures in New England.

Weather impacts the success quite I bit from my experience. Warm days seem to be very helpful to get root stimulation.

Maybe save the big layering projects for spring esp on big branches unless you don’t mind losing a branch and want to just experiment. Maples are relatively easy. Elms are very friendly to layering.

A tree not as common but that I have found roots rapidly is the Persian Ironwood or Parrotia persica.

Personally I like working with these because they are very good at healing big scars, have really interesting bark color, layer well and leaf reduction is fairly easy,

Have fun

MH

 

[Dabbler]

Might be quicker to just buy a J maple from a store and ground grow it - maybe less headache too - Or just do both

 

[LuZiKui]

Is this a joke?

If you're gonna dream, dream big man. That's sort of why I made this post. I assumed it was probably overly ambitious, and based off all the (helpful) feedback I've got a better idea of what's more realistic and likely more successful. Thanks for your feedback though

 

[leatherback]

Is this a joke?

are you a joke?

 

[leatherback]

The branch I'm planning on removing, 1st air layer around here:

You can airlayer large branches. Main question.. Is what you are layering interesting. Just big is exactly that. Just big. So look for other components that will make the tree interesting. Good taper, movement, side-branches etc.

If not available, often it is much faster to grow these while the buld is still on the tree and layer a few years late.r

 

[JudyB]

What he said ^^^ Those large sections are pretty uninteresting for a bonsai, and if you chop it to make some movement the transitions will be a long time to sort. Also I agree with @BrianBay9 about trying to water the layer, tried a largish one up in a tree, and then the summer turned out to be hot and dry. Gave up on it in the end. Try to find smaller more interesting branches to layer and then set up a ground growing area to speed progress. Good looking property!

 

[EnderStar101]

Out of curiosity, would you happen to have an idea about what kind of JM that is? If it's a standard JM or a cultivar?

 

[Paradox]

Out of curiosity, would you happen to have an idea about what kind of JM that is? If it's a standard JM or a cultivar?

It doesn't look like a standard JM to me but it is impossible to determine what cultivar it could be. There are 1000s of maple varieties and many look very similar