Kilns - I have a ? about electric kilns

[NaoTK]

Thank you for the info. 261 zip codes aren't too far.
I am most interested in making oval and rectangle pots as large as this kiln will handle.
I have a new shed being built atm, and will be running water and electricity under ground to it as well as buying and installing a wood stove. So I'll be pretty tied up the rest of the year.
I will keep you in mind and holler at you to coordinate a schedule. Thank you.
BTW, about how many hours would a cone 6 cycle take?
I don't like thin pots, not sure if thickness of clay matters here.


Hi Nao
Good thought on the circuit size and run.
Given the plug schematic above, is there any reason a 30A circuit breaker wouldn't be proper if the kiln is specd at 30A, or should I have the next size up breaker?
Don't know if this is a 208 or 240V kiln. How important is this?

For your 60A circuit I'm reading a minimum of 6AWG.
Also reading in charts that this wire I have at 90°C insulation carries up to 40A which seems perfect for the short length of run I'll have.
The shed is next to my service pole and meter. I may be able to touch the service breaker box on the pole (where I access power) and the breaker box in the shed at the same time. So voltage

This says you need a 50A breaker. It will draw more than 30A at times and a 30A breaker will trip. This also means you need the correct 6AWG wire.

You can fire in 8-10 hours of actual electricity use. The other time is candling and cooling. It's roughly $8 for a bisque firing and $12 for a cone 10 in my area.

https://kruegerpottery.com/products...t6svNFmSkT5O_LM5pmxSjKp7mENVlNz9RnTGPAXjx_0Mj

 

[Japonicus]

This says you need a 50A breaker. It will draw more than 30A at times and a 30A breaker will trip. This also means you need the correct 6AWG wire.

You can fire in 8-10 hours of actual electricity use. The other time is candling and cooling. It's roughly $8 for a bisque firing and $12 for a cone 10 in my area.

https://kruegerpottery.com/products...t6svNFmSkT5O_LM5pmxSjKp7mENVlNz9RnTGPAXjx_0Mj

Sounds like I should just put a 50A breaker and receptacle on my service pole and run the kiln outdoors with a 30 inch run of 6AWG wire.
That sounds ideal if ambient temp is not a factor and I use a dolly back n forth to shed.

 

[Japonicus]

The 100A box inside the shed, is directly behind this meter. The 200?A outdoor box has a double slot available.

 

[mrcasey]

Wow
Thst IS a lot of electricity.
What if the power goes out during use? Be it a moment, minute or longer?

It doesn't fire for nearly that long. A lot of that time is from the cool down.
If power goes out, pots can be refired.

 

[BrightsideB]

Honestly I think you are better off just getting some clay and trying it yourself. It’s such a long process to make a pot (throwing/building, drying time, trimming, more drying, etc etc) that I can’t see how you would really be able to do much in a short class. I guess you could learn to throw in a class, but there’s much more to do after throwing it.

Just my 2 cents anyway. Have fun! Pottery is awesome

I agree with that! @Japonicus make sure to get the right clay that will do well outside and in the range you plan to fire. A lot of clays say cone 6 - 10. These are cone 10 clays.

I’d suggest going to your closest ceramics supplier if you can. You need some tools and clay. Most companies have gone out of business so it may not even be an option. But make sure you get the right basic tools and the proper clay for your firing temp and obviously for making bonsai pots. It’s easy to skip a step in the beginning. Doesn’t matter hobby or professional. Ending up with wrong results is the same.

Ceramics can be super frustrating because there are so many things that can go wrong. Also many limitations. But it is also super exciting seeing the pots finished and everything went great.

 

[Japonicus]

I agree with that! @Japonicus make sure to get the right clay that will do well outside and in the range you plan to fire. A lot of clays say cone 6 - 10. These are cone 10 clays.

I’d suggest going to your closest ceramics supplier if you can. You need some tools and clay. Most companies have gone out of business so it may not even be an option. But make sure you get the right basic tools and the proper clay for your firing temp and obviously for making bonsai pots. It’s easy to skip a step in the beginning. Doesn’t matter hobby or professional. Ending up with wrong results is the same.

Ceramics can be super frustrating because there are so many things that can go wrong. Also many limitations. But it is also super exciting seeing the pots finished and everything went great.

Thank you so much.
I appreciate you veterans stopping by and adding good ideas and points.
I looked up purple Yixing clay and the price varied wildly.
Not sure how far 1000g or 1 kilo goes.
Tools yes tools. I haven't forgotten but haven't researched it yet either.
I'm sure lots of improvisements will happen initially, collecting more as I go.

 

[Pitoon]

First off you need to check your wire running from your breaker box to the receptacle. For 50Amps your wire should be no less than 6 gauge. If you are using 10 gauge wire which is the minimum for 30Amps with a 50Amp breaker you are looking for trouble.

You posted some pics earlier.......

With electric you need to know what you are working with, if not you are risking a fire. Unless whatever you found online is an exact model don't use it for reference. The kiln should have a data plate somewhere on it, usually it's near the controller. If the kiln is rated at 30Amps it will be shown there. If it only shows watts then take the watts and divide by Volts to get the Amps.

Example: 9500watts / 240V = 39.58 (40Amps)

If your circuit is 30Amps (10 gauge wire) and the kiln pulls 30Amps then you should be ok. If your kiln has the same specs as the pic you posted then it can fire up to Cone 10. But keep in mind if you're firing at Cone 10 your wire and breaker is at its max capacity, it will get hot. So if you were planning to fire at Cone 10 often it would be better to plug it into a 40 or 50Amp circuit.

Now here's the thing if your circuit is rated for 30Amps you will need a 50Amp receptacle to be able to plug it into due to the end. Make sure you label on the receptacle 30Amps MAX, so no one will automatically assume that circuit is a 50Amp circuit and possibly cause a fire.

Not to sure I understand what you mean by using that cable for as an extension cord from the breaker box. Just remember a solid copper wire can handle more amps than strand wire of the same gauge, and the more a cable increases in length, so does its resistance, which leads to a voltage drop.

As for the voltage of the kiln, if your sister-in-law was using the kiln it is safe to say it's most likely 240V. I doubt it would be 208V as this current is usually used in commercial buildings. You will know if you have a 208V or 240V kiln when you plug it in and use it. If your pots come out as planned then it's a 240V kiln, but if your kiln keeps over firing then most likely it's a 208V. But the voltage should also be on the data plate. If the kiln is a 208V kiln you can convert it to 240V by changing the resistance on the elements.

If you have questions let me know.

 

[Japonicus]

First off you need to check your wire running from your breaker box to the receptacle. For 50Amps your wire should be no less than 6 gauge. If you are using 10 gauge wire which is the minimum for 30Amps with a 50Amp breaker you are looking for trouble.

You posted some pics earlier.......

With electric you need to know what you are working with, if not you are risking a fire. Unless whatever you found online is an exact model don't use it for reference. The kiln should have a data plate somewhere on it, usually it's near the controller. If the kiln is rated at 30Amps it will be shown there. If it only shows watts then take the watts and divide by Volts to get the Amps.

Example: 9500watts / 240V = 39.58 (40Amps)

If your circuit is 30Amps (10 gauge wire) and the kiln pulls 30Amps then you should be ok. If your kiln has the same specs as the pic you posted then it can fire up to Cone 10. But keep in mind if you're firing at Cone 10 your wire and breaker is at its max capacity, it will get hot. So if you were planning to fire at Cone 10 often it would be better to plug it into a 40 or 50Amp circuit.

Now here's the thing if your circuit is rated for 30Amps you will need a 50Amp receptacle to be able to plug it into due to the end. Make sure you label on the receptacle 30Amps MAX, so no one will automatically assume that circuit is a 50Amp circuit and possibly cause a fire.

Not to sure I understand what you mean by using that cable for as an extension cord from the breaker box. Just remember a solid copper wire can handle more amps than strand wire of the same gauge, and the more a cable increases in length, so does its resistance, which leads to a voltage drop.

As for the voltage of the kiln, if your sister-in-law was using the kiln it is safe to say it's most likely 240V. I doubt it would be 208V as this current is usually used in commercial buildings. You will know if you have a 208V or 240V kiln when you plug it in and use it. If your pots come out as planned then it's a 240V kiln, but if your kiln keeps over firing then most likely it's a 208V. But the voltage should also be on the data plate. If the kiln is a 208V kiln you can convert it to 240V by changing the resistance on the elements.

If you have questions let me know.

Thank you so much for all the good and accurate info. and you're absolutely correct, the length > resistance and solid vs stranded. Today talking w NaoTk I've got the idea in my mind to buy the 6AWG wire (scratch the current 10AWG) and run a 30 inch run of it to a receptacle outdoors on my service pole rated for 50A
see posts 21-23. Then I would use a dolly to move the kiln to the outdoors for firing. Sound good so far?

Does sound like it is 240V then. Didn't know that about 208V just saw the option to order either way. The unit is 45 mins away and I do not have a picture of the data plate. Sorry for the guessing game. Once our new shed is built and floor painted I will go get the kiln. Probably late this month.

 

[hampton]

There's a lot more to electricity than just casually adding a 50 or 60 Amp breaker and 6-50R or 15-60R receptacle. Triple check that your copper wire can support the load. Using an undergauge copper wire can overheat or melt....worse catch on fire.

Oh for sure, I ran 6g copper and my buddy who’s a licensed electrician looked over everything. Don’t want to mess with a house fire.

Edit: Showed up late and hadn’t caught up on the thread.

 

[Wood]

I'd really suggest trying a couple of pottery classes at a community studio before installing your own kiln, just to make sure you've got the hang of it and that you like ceramics -- art departments at community colleges are great places to look. There's even places that will let you rent a kiln (kilnshare.com) though I don't know how many are available in your area

I got into ceramics for a while just to make bonsai pots, and quickly realized that I'm not going to make readily available ovals and rectangles. It's too annoying and too much work. I'd rather make small amounts of funky stuff than traditional forms that someone else can do better than I can

 

[Japonicus]

I'd really suggest trying a couple of pottery classes at a community studio before installing your own kiln, just to make sure you've got the hang of it and that you like ceramics -- art departments at community colleges are great places to look. There's even places that will let you rent a kiln (kilnshare.com) though I don't know how many are available in your area

I got into ceramics for a while just to make bonsai pots, and quickly realized that I'm not going to make readily available ovals and rectangles. It's too annoying and too much work. I'd rather make small amounts of funky stuff than traditional forms that someone else can do better than I can

Thank you for the insight.
Nobody in our area makes bonsai pots. What I'm understanding is folks take prefabbed, wheel thrown and slab built pottery to a teacher for them to fire.
Marshal University offers a pottery class in Spring so I will inquire.
As far as kilnshare...the kiln may be free, and I'd still have to run the wire etc...so that won't figure in.
Yes rectangle and oval is my target. Wish me luck.

 

[Wood]

Ceramics is a deep practice on its own that takes a lot of knowledge and practice to pull off correctly. Using community studios is a great way to leverage other people's skills at a lower investment cost.

Some of the things you'll need to deal with if you're firing your own kiln:

• Are you sure that your kiln hit the correct heat-work for the clay and glaze (what cone did it actually reach?)
• Did you load your greenware/bisque into the kiln evenly so that it fires well?
• Did you stagger the gaps in your kiln shelves to alleviate chimney-like effects inside the kiln?
• Is the kiln heating evenly? If it's not, is that due to your loading, a bad element, or a bad kiln controller?
• Related to kiln control, how's this one controlled?
  • Digitally? Are you sure the thermocouple in the kiln isn't burn out?
  • With a kiln-sitter? Make sure you load the correct type of cone properly
  • Visually? Opening a peephole and looking at the kiln color is gonna make you go blind

It's a lot of work to keep a kiln in good operation, in addition to the electrical wiring to get it running. If you're able to tackle all those difficulties, then you get to deal with the difficulties inherent in ceramics. Building a small pot without warping is annoying enough to start, and it gets exponentially more difficult the more you go up in size. 13" pots aren't easy to keep from warping. After accounting for time and labor, the cost of your first pot is dramatically more expensive than just about anything you can easily order, even large kowatari/nakawatari pots. It's much much easier to go to Kaede-en's ebay page or the Facebook auctions and buy something nice

 

[Wood]

Also, Ryan Rakhshan is an all-around ceramics artist and kiln-repair whiz. (I believe) he lives in the eastern WV region and works/teaches classes all across the mid-Atlantic region. Might be worth reaching out to about more specific details, or just be a good contact for ceramics folks in your area:

Ryan Rakhshan, Ceramic Artist

Ceramic arts porfolio for Ryan Rakhshan.

www.ryanrakhshan.com

https://www.instagram.com/potsbyryan

He runs Midnight Ceramics which has some awesome glazes. I highly recommend any ceramicists in this thread to go check out his stuff, even if you're not looking for kiln repair

 

[Japonicus]

Also, Ryan Rakhshan is an all-around ceramics artist and kiln-repair whiz. (I believe) he lives in the eastern WV region and works/teaches classes all across the mid-Atlantic region. Might be worth reaching out to about more specific details, or just be a good contact for ceramics folks in your area:

Ryan Rakhshan, Ceramic Artist

Ceramic arts porfolio for Ryan Rakhshan.

www.ryanrakhshan.com

https://www.instagram.com/potsbyryan

He runs Midnight Ceramics which has some awesome glazes. I highly recommend any ceramicists in this thread to go check out his stuff, even if you're not looking for kiln repair

Thank you for the link and contact info!

 

[sorce]

I think it's better you spend the electrical money on propane and fire with gas.



Sorce

 

[BrightsideB]

I think it's better you spend the electrical money on propane and fire with gas.



Sorce

Talking about converting a crappy old oxidation kiln into reduction? I’ve seen people do that online it is cool! His is pretty small though.

 

[sorce]

Talking about converting a crappy old oxidation kiln into reduction? I’ve seen people do that online it is cool! His is pretty small though.

Aye!
I'm still trying to make more days in the week and hours in the days to do mine.....but ....

I rocked a tiny one sideways, the one @HorseloverFat was/is using.
My guy wants me to sideways this 12 sided (maybe 10?) joint I got now. Can't find it feasible for me right now though.....

Anyhoo.....

@Japonicus !

Looking forward to seeing your work!

Sorce

 

[Japonicus]

I think it's better you spend the electrical money on propane and fire with gas.



Sorce

Hey @sorce! Let's see 1st if this is another hobby I dig after getting it going.
I didn't know this unit would be big enough to convert.

Here's another ? I have about the clay and firing.
If I'm using clay at twice the thicknes than pot x, how does this affect times from drying to cone cycle? (if I'm even asking that correctly)

 

[NaoTK]

If I'm using clay at twice the thicknes than pot x, how does this affect times from drying to cone cycle? (if I'm even asking that correctly)

Drying time increases exponentially with thickness, but the kind of clay you use and the weather are bigger factors. Firing times will not change significantly. If you are using an electric kiln you just hit GO and it does all the work.

 

[Wood]

Drying time increases exponentially with thickness, but the kind of clay you use and the weather are bigger factors. Firing times will not change significantly. If you are using an electric kiln you just hit GO and it does all the work.

That’s assuming a well calibrated digital controller? Or do kiln sitters do a good enough job that you can just walk away?