Key words to look for to know if a pot is able to withstand winter outdoors

[Brian Van Fleet]

Our pots are exposed to relatively harsh conditions, as compared to a vase sitting on the mantle. Still, the inward-curved shape isn't something to be avoided, just need to know how to work with it. When repotting, I use a knife and simply cut around the inside of the pot like you cut a cake loose from its pan. You can do the same as winter approaches if you're really concerned. I don't bother.

In the last 20 years, I've received 3 broken pots in shipping, and broken one by carelessly storing it.

The one shown is the first pot that has spawlted; it was a cheap, straight-sided Houtoko that's been in continuous use in my garden for 10 years; not bad for $60. The rest all have a pretty good inward-curving lip, and are 10-30 years old.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Our pots are exposed to relatively harsh conditions, as compared to a vase sitting on the mantle. Still, the inward-curved shape isn't something to be avoided, just need to know how to work with it. When repotting, I use a knife and simply cut around the inside of the pot like you cut a cake loose from its pan. You can do the same as winter approaches if you're really concerned. I don't bother.

In the last 20 years, I've received 3 broken pots in shipping, and broken one by carelessly storing it.

The one shown is the first pot that has spawlted; it was a cheap Houtoko that's been in continuous use in my garden for 10 years; not bad for $60. The rest all have a pretty good inward-curving lip, and are 10-30 years old.

While waiting at the bus stop...I was thinking of the cake pan method wondering if it would help when repotting. Thanks for your post...lovely pots there!

 

[Poink88]

It depends on how frequent you re-pot and how thick the roots get. It may be easy or difficult. If you look at the pic of Don's you can see a root that is probably an inch...good luck cutting that with a knife. Saw will be more like it. Note that the shape is somewhat similar to BVF's 4th pic.

This is a great learning opportunity again...now you know not to fit chopped roots too close to the walls of the pot, leave some for growth...even for the stubs. And some for your knife/sickle/saw to go through.

 

[Cadillactaste]

It depends on how frequent you re-pot and how thick the roots get. It may be easy or difficult. If you look at the pic of Don's you can see a root that is probably an inch...good luck cutting that with a knife. Saw will be more like it. Note that the shape is somewhat similar to BVF's 4th pic.

This is a great learning opportunity again...now you know not to fit chopped roots too close to the walls of the pot, leave some for growth...even for the stubs. And some for your knife/sickle/saw to go through.

Indeed...I am finding this quite informative.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

It depends on how frequent you re-pot and how thick the roots get. It may be easy or difficult. If you look at the pic of Don's you can see a root that is probably an inch...good luck cutting that with a knife. Saw will be more like it. Note that the shape is somewhat similar to BVF's 4th pic.

This is a great learning opportunity again...now you know not to fit chopped roots too close to the walls of the pot, leave some for growth...even for the stubs. And some for your knife/sickle/saw to go through.

Lets be clear about Don's example. That is a very healthy, strong root system. The thick root exposed at the break isn't the likely cause because it is no longer growing. Over time and successive repottings, the goal is to completely eliminate those thick roots from the root system. I have never had a problem cutting a root ball loose from a pot using the same old serrated knife that's been in my bag for years.

 

[Vance Wood]

Ahhh I was wondering after I posted...if there was a poster with that name. thanks!
Sorry about that Dorothy...I sort of recall your poster name now.


So Dario...what were the cause of all the cracked pots...their story if you know.

And this is why I hate pseudonyms used to identify ourselves. Right now Neli and my neli are having a discussion on IBC. Took me a minute to figure out that we were not having a Gen. Braxton Bragg moment on IBC.

Sorry for the side bar. However in my experience the pots made in America by people who grow bonsai are pretty reliable as are those made in Japan. The only posts I have had trouble with are those made in China. One rule of thumb (no pun intended) is to hold the pot up with the thumb and which ever finger is strongest and give it a knock with a knuckle of opposing hand. The higher the pitch that the pot resounds with will give you a clue as to how winter hard the pot will be. The more like a bell the better the quality of the pot. If it go thunk then it be junk, if it go ping then its the thing.

 

[Poink88]

Lets be clear about Don's example. That is a very healthy, strong root system. The thick root exposed at the break isn't the likely cause because it is no longer growing. Over time and successive repottings, the goal is to completely eliminate those thick roots from the root system. I have never had a problem cutting a root ball loose from a pot using the same old serrated knife that's been in my bag for years.

I doubt that. See how well it formed itself to the shape of the pot? If it was no longer growing...Don did a heck of a job carving that to fit the pot perfectly and keeping it fresh and healthy.

I do a lot of root chop and most of them grow roots...others just callus and heal over. They grow though admittedly slowly.

I agree that reducing the big roots and developing a nice root system like yours is the goal. Awesome job you did there.

 

[Poink88]

Lets be clear about Don's example. That is a very healthy, strong root system. The thick root exposed at the break isn't the likely cause because it is no longer growing. Over time and successive repottings, the goal is to completely eliminate those thick roots from the root system. I have never had a problem cutting a root ball loose from a pot using the same old serrated knife that's been in my bag for years.

I doubt that. See how well it formed itself to the shape of the pot? If it was no longer growing...Don did a heck of a job carving that to fit the pot perfectly and keeping it fresh and healthy.

I do a lot of root chop and most of them grow roots...others just callus and heal over. They grow though admittedly slowly.

I agree that reducing the big roots and developing a nice root system like yours is the goal. Awesome job you did there.

 

[Don Blackmond]

Don,

You don't think that if your pot is like Dorothy's that the tree would have lifted/pushed itself up instead? I've seen many trees that did that instead of popping the pot.

I am new and 2 of my ficus Salicaria did. I am sure it will just a matter of time before they popped their pot had they been wired with much thicker wire or if the pot have a small mouth like yours.

No, I don't think so. The main issue was a thick root growing laterally into the pot wall. If it was just fine feeder roots outgrowing the pot, then the tree would have lifted or the rootball would have grown upward pushing the soil out despite the inward lip.

In my example/photo, the trident has a massive trunk with large radial root flair. The large roots were alive and still growing as the tree trunk expanded. Healthy tridents, even old trees, can grow and expand rapidly. As this tree grew, one of the thick radial roots forming the flared base grew outward into the pot wall, reached the pot wall, fused to the shape of the pot wall, and ultimately caused the pot to crack as a result of stress/pressure. It was not a cheap pot, although it certainly may have contained a defect causing a weakness. There may very well be other factors, but its my opinion that the thick root is the primary cause. That root was in the 2" plus size range. I am attaching more photos. These are from 2005/2006

Keep in mind, I may be wrong. Its just my opinion.

 

[Poink88]

Don.

Thanks. That is an awesome tree!!! I am in-love.

It is also much bigger than I thought. Wow!

 

[Cadillactaste]

I had no idea that trunk base was so mammoth!
Some pretty amazing bark as well

Thanks for sharing...it helped me grasp your situation...any idea of what that tree weighs!?! Very amazing tree...lucky you!

 

[Don Blackmond]

Lets be clear about Don's example. That is a very healthy, strong root system. The thick root exposed at the break isn't the likely cause because it is no longer growing. Over time and successive repottings, the goal is to completely eliminate those thick roots from the root system. I have never had a problem cutting a root ball loose from a pot using the same old serrated knife that's been in my bag for years.

As BVF says, removing the thick roots, which are not needed, is the goal. I have nibbled at this one over the years. The problem is, its a tweener. The trunk base is so big that an oval/rectangle pot does not look right when sized right; the proper dimensions front to back result in oversized dimensions left to right (imo). Yet, it does not look right in a round pot (imo). So, I use a pot with correct dimensions left to right (imo) that will accommodate the tree front to back. But its tight and the tree keeps growing and undoing my root work.

BVF mentions using a knife. I use a Masakuni root sword. It works very well. I slip it into the soil along the edge of the pot, rocking it back and forth, cutting around the outer edge of the root ball. Its thick and durable, capable of the abuse I put it through.

 

[Don Blackmond]

any idea of what that tree weighs!?!

Not really. Its awkward weight, so carrying it and repotting it is a challenge. I work solo.

 

[Poink88]

Not really. Its awkward weight, so carrying it and repotting it is a challenge. I work solo.

Wow...you use a hoist (or similar to help lift/suspend the tree) I hope.

 

[Don Blackmond]

Wow...you use a hoist (or similar to help lift/suspend the tree) I hope.

Nope. Just brawn, and a little brain.

 

[Poink88]

Nope. Just brawn, and a little brain.

Note to self. Do not mess with Don. LOL

Seriously, I've seen pics of lots of your trees and this (as big as it is) is not that big compared to some. How in the world can you do that?

 

[Don Blackmond]

Note to self. Do not mess with Don. LOL

Seriously, I've seen pics of lots of your trees and this (as big as it is) is not that big compared to some. How in the world can you do that?

I'd like to say skill, but I'd be lying. Its a physical challenge, and I never shy away from a challenge (but often regret it afterwards). Seriously, there is nothing magical about what I do. Leverage and balance coupled with willpower, a strong back and a weak mind is all it takes. Calculated stupidity? My wife says I'm crazy.

My daily dose of dumb. I was planning to repot this but decided to sell it instead; packed and shipped yesterday. 38" tall from the soil, 13" base, 100% awkward weight...

 

[Poink88]

I'd like to say skill, but I'd be lying. Its a physical challenge, and I never shy away from a challenge (but often regret it afterwards). Seriously, there is nothing magical about what I do. Leverage and balance coupled with willpower, a strong back and a weak mind is all it takes. Calculated stupidity? My wife says I'm crazy.

My daily dose of dumb. I was planning to repot this but decided to sell it instead; packed and shipped yesterday. 38" tall from the soil, 13" base, 100% awkward weight...

Awesome tree. All the hard work is done and just need branch work. Lucky fellow whoever got it.

I hope you save your back...we are not getting any younger. I too am like that and usually push myself. Thought I am small...I can do a lot pound per pound my weight. Like you I also tend to regret it later.

 

[GrimLore]

No, I don't think so. The main issue was a thick root growing laterally into the pot wall. If it was just fine feeder roots outgrowing the pot, then the tree would have lifted or the rootball would have grown upward pushing the soil out despite the inward lip.

Keep in mind, I may be wrong. Its just my opinion.

I agree with you and was curious if you 4/side wire your large stuff in really tight to the pot. I see that done and avoid cranking them down tightly as our specimens do get exposed to all the elements and freeze/thaw all Winter. I feel by giving them a little play like about 1/4 inch saves us those hassles.

Grimmy

 

[Don Blackmond]

I agree with you and was curious if you 4/side wire your large stuff in really tight to the pot. I see that done and avoid cranking them down tightly as our specimens do get exposed to all the elements and freeze/thaw all Winter. I feel by giving them a little play like about 1/4 inch saves us those hassles.

Grimmy

typically, no, just 2 wires. sometimes 3.