Kelp/other bio stimulants

[cmeg1]

Bjorn Bjorholms Podcast

In Bjorns podcast he mentions a paper that can be downloaded to explain the results I am observing with increased Cytokinin levels through application of Kelp/Fulvic Acid.
I understand this better now after reading the paper a couple times.I will read a few more times though.
The last page sums it up......what is described in the read.Though this seems to be relatively uncovered science (concerning the MANY MORE processes involved) in axellary bud suppression and growth with respect to the role auxin plays in suppression of Cytokinin through regulation of expression various genes and dna in hormonal changes the plants have developed to control growth (apical dominance to name one).
Here is picture of last page and also link to Bjorns cited paper(has a download tab). Thanks @coh

Auxin–cytokinin interactions in the control of shoot branching - Plant Molecular Biology

In many plant species, the intact main shoot apex grows predominantly and axillary bud outgrowth is inhibited. This phenomenon is called apical dominance, and has been analyzed for over 70 years. Decapitation of the shoot apex releases the axillary buds from their dormancy and they begin to grow...

link.springer.com

 

[cmeg1]

A Zelkova seedling air-layer.

This Zelkova was grown from seed,air-layered and to it’s current state all in a span of 9 weeks!
I am liking the prolific interior buds which definately are a plus for making smaller Bonsai.
Indoors hydro,co2 and all the bells and whistles.
But,I think the Kelp/Fulvic Acid drench and foliar sprays will help any situation providing it’s an environment for proper growth with good horticultural practices and proper assimilation of nutrients.

Pictures at start to present.
I’m so excited for this 9 weeks( could just be full genetic potential of Zelkova).

 

[cmeg1]

High Brix

I do not have a brixometer,but just looking at the leaves of a Zelkova this evening before thinning and wiring tells me these are High Brix!
I read that in a plant leaf ,water in the leaf cells is attractive to sucking insect,but in a high brix plant with super increased calcium uptake through drenches of specific L amino acids(L glycine and L glutamate)there is instead calcium pectate that is unpenetrable and insects do not even recognize it as food.
I used the L amino acids in every watering.

 

[cmeg1]

comparison W/bio-stimulants & W/out

Found an old picture before I used any bio-stimulants for seedling air-layers....just plain water.Essentially same rooting time of about 2 weeks.

 

[cmeg1]

Cytokonin makes lateral buds open very early

The kelp is great for opening backbuds.Normally they open when auxin is supressed from removal of terminal shoot.That is when cytokinin is produced in literaly several hours to initiate lateral buds opening.Kind of like a genetic survival mechanism.
The Fulvic acid does a great job of getting cytokinin from the kelp into plant cells to start this process earlier in as little as 4 hours while meristem is still intact.Even into the soft bark I believe!
I am experimenting with the Virginia Tech 5:2 ratio of Fulvic Acid/Kelp,as they have discovered after a 10 year study that this ratio works 50% better.
I used it once and I am getting back buds on 1” branches...WOW.
I like this...backbuds are everything really.

 

[cmeg1]

The mighty one.

This is a seedling I did not make a cutting because it had a nice thick stem and straight ,thick needles which is actually rare for tiny seedlings.
So it has a head start on the others since growth was unhindered from cutting process.I do believe it may have different genetics.The stem is already 1/2” thick!
It is a monster at 4 months old now.I will keep this one...the roots are probably very nice.For a seedling I found them quite interesting.The pouch is packed tight with roots that should be pruning themselves.l in the Rootpouch.

 

[Colorado]

Alright. You’ve convinced me to give this stuff a try

 

[cmeg1]

Alright. You’ve convinced me to give this stuff a try

Awesome.It is fun reporting these experiments!
I am going to use it on species that are reluctant to make lateral branching such as Hawthorne.
I have cuttings in the mail from Brent and will start growing right away.Wish me luck propogating them.I believe I can do this.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Me, too. Kelp meal dusted on surface of soil followed by a 5 grams/gal Fuvex plus 28 grams/gal in water drench, ~once a month (drench) on bonsai in greenhouse. Many species. I use an all organic soil. My greenhouse is a lean-to on the WNW side of the house and only gets direct sun after noon, so this is a very slow growth/dormant period for me. Comments welcome.

 

[cbroad]

I am going to use it on species that are reluctant to make lateral branching

Curious if this could work for ginkgo seedlings?

 

[cmeg1]

Curious if this could work for ginkgo seedlings?

Very good question! I will get one from Brent and try it out with the other ones.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I am following this thread with interest.

One thing I've noticed. For sizing up explants from tissue culture of blueberries, we have to keep them in containers until they are physically large enough to compete with the grasses in the rows of blueberry bushes and big enough to see from the seat of a 1955 Masey-Ferguson tractor. That is about 9 feet off the ground. So the 3 gallon size is ideal, but if we are careful, we can keep track of 24 inch tall plants. So I get little 1 inch tall explants of new strains of blueberries and bring them up to size.

For blueberry potting mix, we use 1 to 2 parts bark, 1 part Canadian peat, and a small 1/10th part of hardwood sawdust. The problem with this mix is that the Canadian peat is awful. It is a fine powder, even if you sift it, 90% passes through window screen, roughly 1/16th inch. Terrible in terms of what I like in a designed media. But blueberries require acidity that can not be achieved without the use of peat, especially since our irrigation water is about 189 mg/liter Calcium Carbonate Total Alkalinity. We need the zeolite properties of the peat to tie up excess calcium (*tying up calcium is the useful purpose, incidentally it lowers pH ).

SO, why do I bring this up, it "ain't bonsai"? The extension service has a paper or two showing humic and fulvic acid supplementation helps in blueberry production. I don't have the source papers, I'm "just the farmer", we "trust but verify" the "bull" the extension agent tells us. So I began with a every 14 day dose of fulvic and humic acids. End of summer 2019 I had about 6 doses, over 12 weeks. Growth was not really noticeably different between the control and the test group, but when transplanting into the field a few of each, I noticed the peat-bark mix of the test plants had developed structure. Clumps, more like soft bark size particles of peat. The flour of Canadian peat had converted to clumps. There was better soil structure, and roots looked better.

I suspect the fulvic and humic acids helped the endomycorrhiza to grow, and in the process the mycorrhiza bound the peat into clumps. This is all good. At least this is my guess. For 2020 we will continue the use of fulvic and humic acids, and see if starting earlier in the year we get more noticeable growth difference between test and control groups. One of our favorite blueberry varieties is somewhat sensitive to soil conditions, 'Duke', seems particularly sensitive to excess calcium. This may help us get them going.

So for what it is worth, my observation suggests (doesn't prove, just hints at) the possibility that humic and fulvic acids will improve the structure of our bonsai soils. This is key if one wants to go as long as possible between repotting. We all know repotting is the single most stressful thing we can do to our trees. Yes, seedlings seem to tolerate it better. But a 100+ year old yamadori does not want its roots messed with at all. So the less often we repot ancient trees, the better. The addition of fulvic and humic acids will help with root health, and most importantly help maintain soil structure so that the health of the roots will stay good, long as possible.

That is my thought, or contribution, to this thread. And, I will keep following this thread. This is just an anecdote, it was not a controlled experiment. So take this with "a grain of salt".

 

[Tieball]

Awesome.It is fun reporting these experiments!
I am going to use it on species that are reluctant to make lateral branching such as Hawthorne.
I have cuttings in the mail from Brent and will start growing right away.Wish me luck propogating them.I believe I can do this.

Very informative. Thanks for taking the time to document your experiments and explain the process thoroughly....and clearly. I tend to simply get lost in all the terminology. I really appreciate your explanation. I’m interested. Mighty fine!

 

[Potsofgreen]

@cmeg1 very intresting thread, im watching very closely as i have recently started up a small scale propagation area. I just picked up some fulvic acid and yucca on amazon haha i already have the kelp...when do you plan on stopping this treatment of foliar sprays? would you use it all the way until bonsai pot stage or just for building branches on seedlings?

 

[cmeg1]

@cmeg1 very intresting thread, im watching very closely as i have recently started up a small scale propagation area. I just picked up some fulvic acid and yucca on amazon haha i already have the kelp...when do you plan on stopping this treatment of foliar sprays? would you use it all the way until bonsai pot stage or just for building branches on seedlings?

Thats great.Thanks.I will use foliar spray for the life of the Bonsai.Compact internodes.Increased leaf health/Photosynthesis.
Good luch!

 

[Potsofgreen]

Thats great.Thanks.I will use foliar spray for the life of the Bonsai.Compact internodes.Increased leaf health/Photosynthesis.
Good luch!

very awesome, good stuff!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Why yucca extract? I've seen it being used, but no idea why anyone would add it to the mix. What does yucca bring to the table?

 

[penumbra]

Why yucca extract? I've seen it being used, but no idea why anyone would add it to the mix. What does yucca bring to the table?

Yucca makers water wetter. It is an excellent surfactant for foliage and is used to water dry soil that normally sheds water. This is for the obvious reason that it reduces surface tension when added to a liquid.

 

[cmeg1]

Why yucca extract? I've seen it being used, but no idea why anyone would add it to the mix. What does yucca bring to the table?

Yucca is a surfectant and not to mention a mild natural fungicide. When you add yucca to a foliar feed it breaks up the water molecule? And spreads evenly over the leaf.Especially if the leaves have waxy coating like pine needles and such.Better leaf coverage.
My teacher said yucca as a surfectant also keeps organic bio-stimulants and regular mineral fertilizers in suspension in your nutrient solution as they tend to behave rather badly together.Just give your nutrient a good shake or stir and it foams back up and your goid to go.very tiny amount ....1/16-1/8 tsp per 5 gal.very foamy stuff

 

[Tieball]

Bjorn Bjorholms Podcast

In Bjorns podcast he mentions a paper that can be downloaded to explain the results I am observing with increased Cytokinin levels through application of Kelp/Fulvic Acid.
I understand this better now after reading the paper a couple times.I will read a few more times though.
The last page sums it up......what is described in the read.Though this seems to be relatively uncovered science (concerning the MANY MORE processes involved) in axellary bud suppression and growth with respect to the role auxin plays in suppression of Cytokinin through regulation of expression various genes and dna in hormonal changes the plants have developed to control growth (apical dominance to name one).
Here is picture of last page and also link to Bjorns cited paper(has a download tab). Thanks @coh

Auxin–cytokinin interactions in the control of shoot branching - Plant Molecular Biology

In many plant species, the intact main shoot apex grows predominantly and axillary bud outgrowth is inhibited. This phenomenon is called apical dominance, and has been analyzed for over 70 years. Decapitation of the shoot apex releases the axillary buds from their dormancy and they begin to grow...

link.springer.com

I understand the Liquid Karma, Fulvex and the Yucca. Do you, or can you, mix all three together for use as a float spray or as a watering additive?