Juniper design choice

[sebfer55]

Hello! I'm deciding on this juniper future design to do a hard prune now. You guys think my option is OK or see any other one? Also.. summer is starting here... Should I prune now or wait for next spring. Ty!

 

[akillas]

Greetings and Merry Christmas!

Personally-

I think the trunk is too small for this kind of foliage. I would let it ground grow for 5-10 years, then reconsider my options. I cant tell what cultivar it is, but some Juniper species just arent worth sinking that much time and effort in, unless you want to get into grafting foliage. So i wouldnt even ground grow it actually, just get a pre-bonsai shimpaku/procumbens/squamata or whatever is popular and cheap in your location and style that with ease and certainty.

But

If you really want to follow your plan,i would only deadwood all of those thick branches along the trunk and carve them into shapes(too thick for that trunk visually, and the abundance of deadwood would offset the coarseness of the foliage) and grow bonsai branches and a canopy from the buds you have emerging- cascade style as your curve line lends to that naturally. This will take a few years depending on where you are and the health of the tree- and in the end you might realize that the foliage is too coarse for the trunk girth- but each to his own.

There are aesthetic guidelines you can follow(that this tree violates and cant overcome unless you ground grow it for a decade or two), but what matters is what you personally find appealing.

Happy holidays!

 

[Paradox]

I think this has a nice trunk and its worth trying to do something with it.

Id agree with jinning the large main trunk under your chosen leader. I think its a good option for a leader.

As for hard pruning now. It's hard to answer because we have no idea where in the world you are. You said summer is starting but we have no idea what your summer is like. Does it get very hot? Is it dry?

Typically we can prune junipers in spring/early summer. However I would not remove more than 25%-30% of the foliage in any year. You need to leave it enough to recover and give it time to recover. When was it repotted last? If this spring, I'd take off no more than 20% foliage this year. So this is a multi year project that if you don't have patience, you'll kill it so be careful how much you do in a year's time.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Welcome. It’s difficult to tell from the photos, but assuming this is the best front, here is another design to consider, keeping the lowest left branch, and continuing the trunk like with the closer branch, then converting the current trunk to deadwood.

Timing, early fall is an ok time to do work, otherwise spring is safest.

 

[sebfer55]

Ty all for the replies and info. It's the start of a very hot summer here so I might just get some foliage out of the way and do major pruning next spring paired with a report.

Greetings and Merry Christmas!

Personally-

I think the trunk is too small for this kind of foliage. I would let it ground grow for 5-10 years, then reconsider my options. I cant tell what cultivar it is, but some Juniper species just arent worth sinking that much time and effort in, unless you want to get into grafting foliage. So i wouldnt even ground grow it actually, just get a pre-bonsai shimpaku/procumbens/squamata or whatever is popular and cheap in your location and style that with ease and certainty.

But

If you really want to follow your plan,i would only deadwood all of those thick branches along the trunk and carve them into shapes(too thick for that trunk visually, and the abundance of deadwood would offset the coarseness of the foliage) and grow bonsai branches and a canopy from the buds you have emerging- cascade style as your curve line lends to that naturally. This will take a few years depending on where you are and the health of the tree- and in the end you might realize that the foliage is too coarse for the trunk girth- but each to his own.

There are aesthetic guidelines you can follow(that this tree violates and cant overcome unless you ground grow it for a decade or two), but what matters is what you personally find appealing.

Happy holidays!

I really like the trunk so I'm giving my plan a shot! Ty for the considered input! Agreed on the existing branches being too thick for the trunk

I think this has a nice trunk and its worth trying to do something with it.

Id agree with jinning the large main trunk under your chosen leader. I think its a good option for a leader.

As for hard pruning now. It's hard to answer because we have no idea where in the world you are. You said summer is starting but we have no idea what your summer is like. Does it get very hot? Is it dry?

Typically we can prune junipers in spring/early summer. However I would not remove more than 25%-30% of the foliage in any year. You need to leave it enough to recover and give it time to recover. When was it repotted last? If this spring, I'd take off no more than 20% foliage this year. So this is a multi year project that if you don't have patience, you'll kill it so be careful how much you do in a year's time.

Agreed on only removing some foliage now and next spring pair hard pruning and a report?

 

[sebfer55]

Ty all for the replies and info. It's the start of a very hot summer here so I might just get some foliage out of the way and do major pruning next spring paired with a report.

Greetings and Merry Christmas!

Personally-

I think the trunk is too small for this kind of foliage. I would let it ground grow for 5-10 years, then reconsider my options. I cant tell what cultivar it is, but some Juniper species just arent worth sinking that much time and effort in, unless you want to get into grafting foliage. So i wouldnt even ground grow it actually, just get a pre-bonsai shimpaku/procumbens/squamata or whatever is popular and cheap in your location and style that with ease and certainty.

But

If you really want to follow your plan,i would only deadwood all of those thick branches along the trunk and carve them into shapes(too thick for that trunk visually, and the abundance of deadwood would offset the coarseness of the foliage) and grow bonsai branches and a canopy from the buds you have emerging- cascade style as your curve line lends to that naturally. This will take a few years depending on where you are and the health of the tree- and in the end you might realize that the foliage is too coarse for the trunk girth- but each to his own.

There are aesthetic guidelines you can follow(that this tree violates and cant overcome unless you ground grow it for a decade or two), but what matters is what you personally find appealing.

Happy holidays!

I really like the trunk so I'm giving my plan a shot! Ty for the considered input! Agreed on the existing branches being too thick for the trunk

I think this has a nice trunk and its worth trying to do something with it.

Id agree with jinning the large main trunk under your chosen leader. I think its a good option for a leader.

As for hard pruning now. It's hard to answer because we have no idea where in the world you are. You said summer is starting but we have no idea what your summer is like. Does it get very hot? Is it dry?

Typically we can prune junipers in spring/early summer. However I would not remove more than 25%-30% of the foliage in any year. You need to leave it enough to recover and give it time to recover. When was it repotted last? If this spring, I'd take off no more than 20% foliage this year. So this is a multi year project that if you don't have patience, you'll kill it so be careful how much you do in a year's time.

Agreed on only removing some foliage now and next spring pair hard pruning and a report?

 

[sebfer55]

Welcome. It’s difficult to tell from the photos, but assuming this is the best front, here is another design to consider, keeping the lowest left branch, and continuing the trunk like with the closer branch, then converting the current trunk to deadwood.

Timing, early fall is an ok time to do work, otherwise spring is safest.
View attachment 624062

I really like your option too. I think lower left branch might be too thick for this plan

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Don’t see why it will not work…. Try to keep in mind when one views a recommendation for an unstyled tree, the originator is thinking what the tree will look like 5-10 years in the future with good care.

At this point it’s more where the living foliage is vs the thickness of branches.

The plan seems to reduce these trunks while fostering the growth in the area. Once strong growth shifts downwards a whole lot of options will open up for the tree.

When viewing recommendations one might keep in mind who the person recommending changes is. In this case @Brian Van Fleet is one of the foremost practitioners on site.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!
DSD sends

PS: Please revise your profile to include your location city/local area and USDA Cold Hardiness Zone. These data really helps us help you.

 

[sebfer55]

Don’t see why it will not work…. Try to keep in mind when one views a recommendation for an unstyled tree, the originator is thinking what the tree will look like 5-10 years in the future with good care.

At this point it’s more where the living foliage is vs the thickness of branches.

The plan seems to reduce these trunks while fostering the growth in the area. Once strong growth shifts downwards a whole lot of options will open up for the tree.

When viewing recommendations one might keep in mind who the person recommending changes is. In this case @Brian Van Fleet is one of the foremost practitioners on site.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!
DSD sends

PS: Please revise your profile to include your location city/local area and USDA Cold Hardiness Zone. These data really helps us help you.

Thanks! Merry Christmas!

 

[akillas]

This is not the first time i encounter this reaction to my advice. Apparently i am wrong for having a personal opinion!
Apologies, i will refrain from giving advice or participating.

Apparently you need to be in a clique and have a certain reaction score to do that.
I will excuse myself from this forum, have a great one and enjoy your club!

 

[sebfer55]

Welcome. It’s difficult to tell from the photos, but assuming this is the best front, here is another design to consider, keeping the lowest left branch, and continuing the trunk like with the closer branch, then converting the current trunk to deadwood.

Timing, early fall is an ok time to do work, otherwise spring is safes

Sorry for the poor photos. Tried to show the best possible fronts.
Considering a hot summer is starting, do you agree on a 20% light prune now and a report+ hard prune + design next spring?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

@akillas

Gosh, certainly not what I intended at all! So sorry if i my post came off that way.

All opinions are equally valid as as Im concerned. My comments were solely focused on one post and OP’s response comments referring to that particular BVF post.

Your comments certainly have merit.

When first joined I sometimes felt this way too. However over time my opinion evolved to looking at all posts from members as helpful to the OP. Honest efforts to broaden one’s thinking about the styling etc. possibilities present in a tree.

Also, these ideas, even if not adopted for the subject tree, are useful in that they offer ideas to carry over in to future work.

So please be of good cheer! We love your ideas.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years!
DSD sends

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This is not the first time i encounter this reaction to my advice. Apparently i am wrong for having a personal opinion!
Apologies, i will refrain from giving advice or participating.

Apparently you need to be in a clique and have a certain reaction score to do that.
I will excuse myself from this forum, have a great one and enjoy your club!

Well... if I offer advice, it is with the expectation that people can take it or leave it. I have lost track of the times I have offered (what I considered) to be sound advice, and it was soundly ignored

I always like to see what people do with their trees, and may not always agree with their direction. But, after all, it is their tree. In the privacy of my own home I can assuage my ego by thinking "awesome, you followed my advice" or "I could have told you that wasn't going to work." But what I really am looking for is those times when someone does something different that really works. "Wow - didn't see that coming. I learned something today!"

I read your post and can completely see where you're coming from. There is a reason why there are a lot of San Jose junipers in SoCal with grafted shimpaku foliage, and this is difficult material. You answered a question that hadn't been asked - not "what should I do with this tree" but "would you consider this good material to develop?" I would pass on it... but that just means I'll be watching to see what is done in the hopes that the OP proves me wrong

 

[sebfer55]

Well... if I offer advice, it is with the expectation that people can take it or leave it. I have lost track of the times I have offered (what I considered) to be sound advice, and it was soundly ignored

I always like to see what people do with their trees, and may not always agree with their direction. But, after all, it is their tree. In the privacy of my own home I can assuage my ego by thinking "awesome, you followed my advice" or "I could have told you that wasn't going to work." But what I really am looking for is those times when someone does something different that really works. "Wow - didn't see that coming. I learned something today!"

I read your post and can completely see where you're coming from. There is a reason why there are a lot of San Jose junipers in SoCal with grafted shimpaku foliage, and this is difficult material. You answered a question that hadn't been asked - not "what should I do with this tree" but "would you consider this good material to develop?" I would pass on it... but that just means I'll be watching to see what is done in the hopes that the OP proves me wrong

Ok, let’s add some information to this thread. Initially, I acquired this tree from someone who is leaving the hobby for a very, very low price. That’s why I never asked whether it was worth buying or not.
The plan is to try to achieve an interesting design given that I already have the tree and to get the best possible result from the initial conditions it presents. If along the way I learn that this species isn’t good enough to reach a design that satisfies me, I will have learned something, and it won’t be the end of the world — I’ll call it practice.
Thanks to everyone for the recommendations!
I would like a better idea of when to carry out the work, considering it has been in that container for about three years, I just reduced the foliage by 20%, and a rather hot summer is beginning.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Ok, let’s add some information to this thread. Initially, I acquired this tree from someone who is leaving the hobby for a very, very low price. That’s why I never asked whether it was worth buying or not.
The plan is to try to achieve an interesting design given that I already have the tree and to get the best possible result from the initial conditions it presents. If along the way I learn that this species isn’t good enough to reach a design that satisfies me, I will have learned something, and it won’t be the end of the world — I’ll call it practice.
Thanks to everyone for the recommendations!
I would like a better idea of when to carry out the work, considering it has been in that container for about three years, I just reduced the foliage by 20%, and a rather hot summer is beginning.

Unacceptable!

(Just kidding) Rootwork on junipers is best in early spring/late winter after risk of hard freeze is past (or if you can provide some protection). I say this because your tree is in a plastic planter and the surface of the soil looks broken down with very little void space in the soil. It is very easy to kill a juniper by keeping the rootball too wet in a plastic pot. If you haven't done so, make sure the tree isn't rootbound, and that the roots are healthy. Healthy roots + good soil means a strong tree and you will be able to do more aggressive work on it than you might otherwise do - and the tree will respond more strongly. At the minimum I would be prioritizing a repot in six months...

Additionally, be careful with junipers that you don't remove too much foliage in one shot. It is better to be cautious and remove no more than 50% in one session, and see how the tree recovers, before you continue to work the tree. If you remove too much in one session, you can get die-back on branches, or the tree may crash and die even when it is otherwise healthy.

This is the perfect time of year (beginning of summer) to prune junipers, since the tree should be at peak strength and have plenty of time to recover prior to the arrival of colder weather next fall. I would recommend creating jins on any big cuts - since you can always reduce them later, but you can't make them longer Note that the harder you prune your tree, the more immature needle foliage you are likely to get. With time, as the foliage matures, you can coax it towards more mature / scale foliage by slowly reducing the immature foliage when it is located where you don't want it. Slower development and pruning will yield more mature foliage whereas aggressive work on the tree may result in more back-budding and development of interior branching, but that young/new growth may all be needle.

 

[sebfer55]

I’m adding a topic I forgot to mention and I think it’s relevant. The trunk is 5 inches thick, and I believe that alone makes it worth trying. Looking back at the photos, I realize that perhaps that important visual reference was missing.

 

[sebfer55]

Unacceptable!

(Just kidding) Rootwork on junipers is best in early spring/late winter after risk of hard freeze is past (or if you can provide some protection). I say this because your tree is in a plastic planter and the surface of the soil looks broken down with very little void space in the soil. It is very easy to kill a juniper by keeping the rootball too wet in a plastic pot. If you haven't done so, make sure the tree isn't rootbound, and that the roots are healthy. Healthy roots + good soil means a strong tree and you will be able to do more aggressive work on it than you might otherwise do - and the tree will respond more strongly. At the minimum I would be prioritizing a repot in six months...

Additionally, be careful with junipers that you don't remove too much foliage in one shot. It is better to be cautious and remove no more than 50% in one session, and see how the tree recovers, before you continue to work the tree. If you remove too much in one session, you can get die-back on branches, or the tree may crash and die even when it is otherwise healthy.

This is the perfect time of year (beginning of summer) to prune junipers, since the tree should be at peak strength and have plenty of time to recover prior to the arrival of colder weather next fall. I would recommend creating jins on any big cuts - since you can always reduce them later, but you can't make them longer Note that the harder you prune your tree, the more immature needle foliage you are likely to get. With time, as the foliage matures, you can coax it towards more mature / scale foliage by slowly reducing the immature foliage when it is located where you don't want it. Slower development and pruning will yield more mature foliage whereas aggressive work on the tree may result in more back-budding and development of interior branching, but that young/new growth may all be needle.

Wonderful insight, thank you very much.
Its not rootbound, and the top of the soil looks really worst than what it has underneath (volcanic stone called puzolana here).
Based on your input i might go a little harder to a 50% prune later today and let it recover until next spring.