Juniper Critique

[nurvbonsai]

I just want to ask,

Did you buy the tree in this pot and soil or have you repotted yourself?

Yes the tree was bought in pot and soil.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Your tree has definitely had enough love for now. Junipers do not like losing too much foliage in one go so we tend to space work out when dealing with junipers to be on the safe side.
Junipers are also notorious for branches dying when they are bent in Spring. That's the time of year when growth is maximum so cambium layer between bark and wood is growing which means bark is not well attached to the trunk under it. Small, gradual bends are usually OK but drastic bends can cause bark to separate which then kills part or all of the branch/trunk above that point.
Let the tree recover for at least a few months before any more work.

@Wulfskaar mentioned harmony. That usually means branches that look similar all over the tree. If you think logically, when the tree drew up weather, wind, etc was similar on all sides of the tree so we expect that all branches will look similar.
Your tree has 2 branches on the left side that rise very slightly then sweep gently down with some minor bends along the length. 2 Branches on the right (and back) grow up markedly from the trunk then sweep down and appear (from my viewing angle) to be relatively straight other than the single bend.
I'm left wondering why one side is so much different to the other?
Smaller branches toward the top appear even straighter (though not much length to make bends) and emerge from the trunk at different angles from any of the lower branches - some growing upward, some down.
Reminder to leave it alone for now. Re-bending branches soon after the first bending runs a much higher risk of killing them.

Very pleasing to see you were brave enough to reduce the trunk. So many beginners want to incorporate all of the tree in the design but pruning is a big part of bonsai. It can reduce height as you've done. Get rid of excessively thick upper branches. Add taper to a trunk. Add natural looking bends to a trunk or branch.

Thank you so much. I’ll circle back in a few months.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Why dont you find a photo of a finished tree you like and share it. That way we can assist with achieving a goal and pointing out key aspects of the design.

Some things which came to my mind when looking at your actions which you should start to think about as you practice on young material at this stage:

1. The first (Primary) branch should be thickest (usually).

In your tree, the thickest branch is further up the tree. This should probably be considered your primary branch or you should be considering actions to take to rectify the fact it is not.

2. Where is the best trunk movement?

Not sure on your tree but is there a better front with more interest, a better nebari, better options for the future?

3. What time of year is it and what are recommended actions to take at that time?

Junipers at this time are growing strong, putting on thickness, gaining strength.. removing all the foliage at this time will slow them down when you should be letting them run and gain vigor in preparation for summer pruning, or fall wiring, or even no work, if a major spring action such as a repot or significant reduction is going to take place.

4. What are species-specific horticultural laws to concern myself with?

Juniper wont backbud as easily or at all. Did you remove branches that should have been left for future growth/ramification/taper building?

Thanks Metalhead. Here’s a picture that at least for aesthetics i like a lot.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I was thinking something sorta like this type of design might be more appropriate going forward.

 

[nurvbonsai]

I was thinking something sorta like this type of design might be more appropriate going forward.

The more I keep coming back to Bonsai do I realize I’m not really in control of any of it. Trying to let the design to speak for themselves.

 

[Wulfskaar]

The more I keep coming back to Bonsai do I realize I’m not really in control of any of it. Trying to let the design to speak for themselves.

Yeah, it's all really just a balancing act.

You have to balance health with drastic change, and you have to balance design with what the tree gives you.

Please consider getting more trees! You'll have more options and start to feel like you have more control.

 

[nurvbonsai]

The

Yeah, it's all really just a balancing act.

You have to balance health with drastic change, and you have to balance design with what the tree gives you.

Please consider getting more trees! You'll have more options and start to feel like you have more control.

hey brother, I don’t expect you to remember but you’ve commented on many other posts with other trees of mine.

 

[Wulfskaar]

hey brother, I don’t expect you to remember but you’ve commented on many other posts with other trees of mine.

I get lost sometimes keeping track of people's trees!

Honestly, threads like these are great learning exercises for me. Last night, I even did a few virts on your tree (from this thread) just to see what I could come up with (they didn't come out well).

 

[nurvbonsai]

I get lost sometimes keeping track of people's trees!

Honestly, threads like these are great learning exercises for me. Last night, I even did a few virts on your tree (from this thread) just to see what I could come up with (they didn't come out well).

It’s all good. I generally have scrolled through the other post here and felt inspired but not up to par to comment as I’m still learning myself.

 

[Wulfskaar]

It’s all good. I generally have scrolled through the other post here and felt inspired but not up to par to comment as I’m still learning myself.

Sometimes I punch above my weight class, as I myself am a beginner, with only 5 years of xp. I think we're all always learning though. Talking about these things is a part of that. Killing trees is another part.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Sometimes I punch above my weight class, as I myself am a beginner, with only 5 years of xp. I think we're all always learning though. Talking about these things is a part of that. Killing trees is another part.

Do you think this is attainable? I dig it a lot.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Do you think this is attainable? I dig it a lot.

 

[souvik1811]

Whole going through the thread, I was a little startled at the amount of foliage removal at this time of the year. Being a beginner myself, Im curious: is it Ok for a juniper to lose this much foliage late spring/early summer?
@nurvbonsai I sincerely hope your tree doesn't miss a beat though.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Whole going through the thread, I was a little startled at the amount of foliage removal at this time of the year. Being a beginner myself, Im curious: is it Ok for a juniper to lose this much foliage late spring/early summer?
@nurvbonsai I sincerely hope your tree doesn't miss a beat though.

From what @Shibui was saying, nurvbonsai took off too much and it should be left to recover for a long while.

@nurvbonsai I think that trunk would take a very long time to attain. I think you might need to go for a literati style on this one, like the example I posted.

 

[Shibui]

Do you think this is attainable? I dig it a lot.

Almost anything is attainable, especially when starting with younger trees. You just need to allocate years and the correct techniques to make it happen.
I suspect the tree you posted is a white pine. The only thing for scale is the foliage. From that I'd estimate the trunk at around 3"-4" thick.
It would probably take around 20 years to grow your juniper trunk to that size. Maybe longer. It could be achieved but whether you want to allocate the time is another question altogether.

Whole going through the thread, I was a little startled at the amount of foliage removal at this time of the year. Being a beginner myself, Im curious: is it Ok for a juniper to lose this much foliage late spring/early summer?

I still believe the tree will cope with this foliage reduction. There is a small risk it may be too much and it would probably be safer to get there in several sessions spaced a few months apart. Also safer to start at the top and work down. Most trees are apical dominant so lower branches grow (and recover) slower while upper branches are still strong so always try to reduce upper branches and contain that growth before reducing lower branches.
As for season, I think Spring would be the best time to do massive reduction as the tree is primed to recover and grow quick.

@nurvbonsai Please keep us informed how the tree goes because that will inform others about pruning junipers.

 

[nurvbonsai]

Almost anything is attainable, especially when starting with younger trees. You just need to allocate years and the correct techniques to make it happen.
I suspect the tree you posted is a white pine. The only thing for scale is the foliage. From that I'd estimate the trunk at around 3"-4" thick.
It would probably take around 20 years to grow your juniper trunk to that size. Maybe longer. It could be achieved but whether you want to allocate the time is another question altogether.


I still believe the tree will cope with this foliage reduction. There is a small risk it may be too much and it would probably be safer to get there in several sessions spaced a few months apart. Also safer to start at the top and work down. Most trees are apical dominant so lower branches grow (and recover) slower while upper branches are still strong so always try to reduce upper branches and contain that growth before reducing lower branches.
As for season, I think Spring would be the best time to do massive reduction as the tree is primed to recover and grow quick.

@nurvbonsai Please keep us informed how the tree goes because that will inform others about pruning junipers.

Thanks Shibui. Do you have a guess on how many seasons it would be?

 

[nurvbonsai]

Almost anything is attainable, especially when starting with younger trees. You just need to allocate years and the correct techniques to make it happen.
I suspect the tree you posted is a white pine. The only thing for scale is the foliage. From that I'd estimate the trunk at around 3"-4" thick.
It would probably take around 20 years to grow your juniper trunk to that size. Maybe longer. It could be achieved but whether you want to allocate the time is another question altogether.


I still believe the tree will cope with this foliage reduction. There is a small risk it may be too much and it would probably be safer to get there in several sessions spaced a few months apart. Also safer to start at the top and work down. Most trees are apical dominant so lower branches grow (and recover) slower while upper branches are still strong so always try to reduce upper branches and contain that growth before reducing lower branches.
As for season, I think Spring would be the best time to do massive reduction as the tree is primed to recover and grow quick.

@nurvbonsai Please keep us informed how the tree goes because that will inform others about pruning junipers.

i won’t cut it right now but is that a bar branch on the bottom left and back?

 

[Shibui]

Do you have a guess on how many seasons it would be?

Is that how many seasons to grow your tree to 3" thick or how many seasons until you should do more work?
It takes me around 10 years to get Shimpaku to about 1" thick, growing in pots using sacrifice branches to get as much thickening as possible. 5 years if they are planted in the ground.
How long it takes you depends on how you grow it, how well you look after it, any special techniques to assist growth and the species as some grow quicker than others.

How many seasons until more work: also depends. Your tree may take a little longer to get going again after the loss of so much solar panels. Recovery also depends on how well it is looked after. Excellent conditions will shorten recovery time. Less than perfect water, sun, temperatures, fert, etc, etc will slow recovery.
The way to tell is when the tree is growing strongly again. At a guess I'd say the quickest would be the coming Fall but more likely Spring next year and maybe as long as the following Spring depending on all the above.

We often recommend that beginners get several trees so they are not tempted to love a single tree to death.

Bar branch is usually opposite. That's both a design fault because our eyes do not slide past a T shape easily but also because branches from the same height on the trunk can over thicken that spot on the trunk = inverse taper.
Yours is a side and back branch at the same level so not as obvious visually. You may still have the same issue with the trunk growing more at that level while 2 branches are feeding into it. Fortunately, junipers are slower to thicken so I think you can leave it as is for a few years if necessary. Generally I find that as trees develop and branches fill out we need less branches so it's likely you'll be able to do without one or the other in a few years anyway.