JeffS73 Belated 2018 JBP from seed thread

[JeffS73]

I know this is a late entry but perhaps you will let it stand after reading!

So I found this 6 yr JBP contest thread earlier this year, after I'd started some 2020 seedlings, but they're a different story.

I started my first JBP seeds in 2018, and it wasn't an early start either:


I planted them in regular garden soil and sand. July '18 was a late start, and they only just got germinated before the weather turned cold in October. I don't have a photo of the seed tray from this period.
I left them outside that Winter, no extra protection, and they survived pretty well.

As it came round to July '19, I decided to pot them up, and had read about cutting stems or tying off stems to produce a good nebari.

These I cut:


This is an example of one I applied a cotton thread tourniquet to:


Not much happened with the ones I cut, so I brought them inside around January '20, where I'd set up a grow area for a new batch of seeds.
The ones with a tourniquet stayed outside in a cold greenhouse.

Here are the cut ones in April '20, indoors. Not the best photo, cropped from a photo about my 2020 seedlings:


Two of the three cut ones had survived, despite my rudimentary knowledge. I was pleased, but at 22 months old they were looking very weedy compared to seedlings only 3 months old.

Here's tourniquet example from March '20 that I'd kept outside in a cold greenhouse:


Around July I moved the cut seedlings outside to join the rest of the class of '18, they were repotted to separate them, and get them into a better substrate.
The ones with a tourniquet were also repotted, new post with results to date to follow soon.

 

[Clicio]

Welcome to the game!

 

[JeffS73]

The two cut JBP improved a lot thanks to the grow tent and a season in good substrate. The roots are pretty good but they're survivors for now, not superstars:

:



2018 cut JBP 2:

 

[JeffS73]

The ones with a tourniquet grew a lot more, and most have pretty good roots. You can see the red thread used to tie off the stem in some pics. There is a tendency for the roots to be one sided or missing a quarter, so not as radial as the cut ones. They clearly got the better of the growing season though:







Some did not work so well, yet to be seen what to do with this one:


All of the pines with a tourniquet had outgrown their pots by September. Here are some pics following an early Autumn repot. My aim was to get them into 1 gallon root pots so they could get established over Autumn, wire over winter then really get growing come the Spring:




I think the tourniquet method is a worthwhile variation on the seedling cutting method. My 2020 seedlings which were cut have far exceeded my 2018 seedlings already, but they've had daily care in a grow tent with 18 hours of light.

The tourniquet 2018 pines just got on with it, good growth and have great roots to work with. The 2018 tourniquet pines all got a decent second flush as well, which is pretty good in the UK.

I'm looking forward to see what Spring brings!

 

[win320]

Hi @JeffS73
hope you are doing well.
could you please post update pics of these pines?
thanks

 

[JeffS73]

I'll probably post around May/June Vin, they're all mulched into a grow bed. Not much to see yet.

 

[win320]

Thanks, Jeff, looking forward to it.

 

[JeffS73]

Update from today. I cut various candles last month to stimulate growth down low, buds yet to show themselves. No repotting this year so sacrifices have taken off.


Last Autumn I moved most of my JBP to a grow bed for winter protection. 2018 comp entries on the right, 2020 seedlings on the left.

The rest of these pics are of the lower trunks, measuring sticks in inches.

 

[JeffS73]

More...

 

[JeffS73]

Couple more...


You can see graft attempts on a few, I think only one took this year which was disappointing after last years successes.

There's a big range of trunk diameter, and a few have already become sticks in a pot, so I'll keep trying to graft them.

I may repot this autumn, but then again, I'd like to see how much growth they put on if undisturbed for 2 years.

 

[win320]

Hi @JeffS73

That's an amazing update. They are growing fast and much thicker.

Regarding grafting, I was 1 video yesterday, I believe in USA, JBP candles are being used for grafting this time of the year. 99% successful within 3 weeks of grafting.

cheers!
Vin

 

[JeffS73]

Thanks Vin. You know, I have a 2020 seedling that is as thick as the thickest 2018 one, so good culture makes a huge difference. But, still no mature needles on my 2020s. I'm expecting another flush of needles on them so fingers crossed.

Re. Grafting, do you have a link to the video please? I would expect there to be too much sap doing it at this time, but I'll give it a go if someone else is having success!

 

[win320]

All the best for the second flush of growth. I am also progressing with a lot of learnings while working on JBPs (and SCPs, thanks to you for giving seeds and this time a good batch is coming along now)

Link for grafting (Facebook) : https://fb.watch/e5mV_sqfSL/

 

[JeffS73]

OK, I know what I'm trying tonight! The zip tie is a great idea, seems a lot better than a pin. I'll let you know how I get on. Have you tried it yourself?

I'm glad the scots seeds worked for you. My 2020 batch are doing well, and my 2021 root cut ones are also coming along well. I'll post in my general thread.

 

[JeffS73]

Here's my final update on my 2018 entries. The previous year wasn't very good - I'd planted them in too dense a substrate, and planted too deep in the grow bed. The roots suffered and growth was slow, when I'd expected it to be stronger.

So most of my pines got a repot, and had another slow year recuperating. The substrate is now 60/40 pumice/bark, 6-15mm. Yes, it's big, but I now have trees with much happier roots.

I've put the trees on top of the grow bed, just slightly embedded so they don't get blown over.

My approach now would be different. I would start indoors in Winter, seedling cut, possibly prune or wire a bit for shape. I would avoid all the grow bags and pot into a 6in pond basket or colander using the pumice/bark. From there, I'm not sure how often I'd repot, but I'd be aiming for a 4L/ 1Gal pond basket in year 2 or 3. I would also prune the tops in year 1 /2 to get distinct sacrifice options for two or more sections of trunk. I didn't prune my 2018 ones back until year 3 or 4 and many will need grafting. In the North of the UK, getting the second flush to mature can be difficult, first flush needs pruning early May, even then second flush doesn't fully mature and may need extra light. Pruning lower shoots too much when there's a strong sacrifice sometimes results in those shoots not budding out as hoped, so it's a tricky balancing act I've yet to work out properly.

Here are some of the better ones, trunks are around 1 - 1.5in, nebari is quite good on them (these weren't seedling cut) and there are buds / shoots low down for future options. The cladding in the pic is about 4in. I need 3-4 years to catch up with the leaders in the competition, but it's been fun

 

[Farwest]

I know this is a late entry but perhaps you will let it stand after reading!

So I found this 6 yr JBP contest thread earlier this year, after I'd started some 2020 seedlings, but they're a different story.

I started my first JBP seeds in 2018, and it wasn't an early start either:






I planted them in regular garden soil and sand. July '18 was a late start, and they only just got germinated before the weather turned cold in October. I don't have a photo of the seed tray from this period.
I left them outside that Winter, no extra protection, and they survived pretty well.

As it came round to July '19, I decided to pot them up, and had read about cutting stems or tying off

Hello, great thread. Would you please explain the tourniquet method mentioned in your thread?

 

[JeffS73]

It's the same as using a washer, except easier to put on when the plant is older. Wrap a wire, plastic covered probably best, around the taproot, not too tight and twist so it won't come undone. As the root thickens the wire cuts in and hopefully new roots grow above. It's kind of like letting the tree layer itself.

I also make a disc of plastic (I use damp proof membrane, it's thick but flexible) cut a slot in it and slide it onto the root just below the tourniquet. This makes new roots go out sideways.

Rooting does have a tendency to be a bit one sided, but it does work.