JBP Any help appreciated!

[sm314]

Ok thankyou! I'll let it do it's thing rather than stress it. I was thinking maybe getting rid of the darker ones would help it give the energy elsewhere maybe?

That's ok it sort of looks more like another bud growing tbh ... Just seems an unusual place but its probably common for all I know.

Thanks.

 

[Ryceman3]

In one of my poor quality photos lol I'm wondering is this the start of a new branch growing dead in the centre of the photo?

I think this might be the bud you are referring to? It does look like growth (which can’t be a bad thing). Cross your fingers I guess!

EDIT: I see you posted as I was typing… above applies!!

 

[sm314]

Yes! Ahh great hope so ... I'm sure I spotted another one the other day too more hidden so hopefully it holds out and can replace all the dead needles quite quickly.

Thanks for looking

I think this might be the bud you are referring to? It does look like growth (which can’t be a bad thing). Cross your fingers I guess!

EDIT: I see you posted as I was typing… above applies!!
View attachment 528261

 

[sm314]

Hi guys hope you are all well.

Little update after a month outside.

I think it has worked and is still alive (thanks for the advice) with a bunch of green still in the lower portion and I believe some new growth has appeared circled in the last photo.

I'm pretty sure a bunch of more brown needles have died although hard to tell tbh.

What would you guys advise regarding the brown needles now/ Repotting Etc going forward.

I've read to just leave them to fall off but I had a second tree which went the same way as this one with a much sharper decline completely brown in a matter of days and I left that outside for around 6 months and not a single needle fell.

Would removing all those needles help the tree grow faster?

Would growth in that area start again replacing those needles?

The bud at the top of the tree as pretty much everything underneath it has died, is that likely to be dead also or just biding it's time still?

Appreciate your time and advice.

 

[sm314]

Hey guys hope you are all well.

While the tree was hanging on it did seem to be slowly getting browner so I decided to repot into a much larger pot and pull the dead needles in the hope that will allow more sunlight to needles still alive and it will be able to pull through.

The roots were incredibly long wrapping all the way around the pot maybe 4 x the size of the trunk so I cut those down evening them out in length and added a bunch of mychorzial fungi to the soil.

Is there anything you guys can suggest at this point I'm moving it into the sun throughout the day as much as possible.

The bud at the top still hasn't opened and I actully think has probably shrunk somewhat over time. Do you guys think that is dead now and it would b.beneficial to just cut that off aswell or just wait and see.

I'm pretty sure there is new growth at various places across the trunk now mostly at the top and bottom which is giving me hope it will pull through even though some of the green. Needles dont look particularly healthy.

Many thanks for any advice.

 

[Paradox]

Hey guys hope you are all well.

While the tree was hanging on it did seem to be slowly getting browner so I decided to repot into a much larger pot and pull the dead needles in the hope that will allow more sunlight to needles still alive and it will be able to pull through.

The roots were incredibly long wrapping all the way around the pot maybe 4 x the size of the trunk so I cut those down evening them out in length and added a bunch of mychorzial fungi to the soil.

Is there anything you guys can suggest at this point I'm moving it into the sun throughout the day as much as possible.

The bud at the top still hasn't opened and I actully think has probably shrunk somewhat over time. Do you guys think that is dead now and it would b.beneficial to just cut that off aswell or just wait and see.

I'm pretty sure there is new growth at various places across the trunk now mostly at the top and bottom which is giving me hope it will pull through even though some of the green. Needles dont look particularly healthy.

Many thanks for any advice.

Honestly, repotting it now probably just finished it off. Also the soil you put it in looks very wet and looks like it will hold too much moisture. Continuing to mess with it usually just sends it over the edge into oblivion.

Don't cut anything more off. The tree will take care of it itself if it lives. If that top bud is dead and there are no other buds then it's probably gone.

Most of the time, the best thing to do with a sick tree is to leave it alone, water when it needs it, WAIT and hope it recovers.

At this point, let it have a few hours of morning sun and water when it needs it. Otherwise, I strongly suggest that you leave it alone!

 

[sm314]

Honestly, repotting it now probably just finished it off. Also the soil you put it in looks very wet and looks like it will hold too much moisture. Continuing to mess with it usually just sends it over the edge into oblivion.

Don't cut anything more off. The tree will take care of it itself if it lives. If that top bud is dead and there are no other buds then it's probably gone.

Most of the time, the best thing to do with a sick tree is to leave it alone, water when it needs it, WAIT and hope it recovers.

At this point, let it have a few hours of morning sun and water when it needs it. Otherwise, I strongly suggest that you leave it alone!

Thanks for the input.

Repotting ... I just thought would be best to do now before spring is gone and leaving another year in such a small pot and it is still very thin and I hoped removing the needles would force out some new needle growth for much needed photosynthesis and a lot more roots to add size.

There are a number of small buds popping out now so the tree is attempting growth since repotting even which gives me hope.

The large bud at the top has been there for the best part of 6 months now without opening which don't know what to think about ... I would have e though it would have opened by now no?

Totally agree on the soil moisture it is a specific bonsai mix from Westland I've just added some myochorzial in but I won't be watering until the soil starts to dry out.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Paradox]

I hoped removing the needles would force out some new needle growth for much needed photosynthesis and a lot more roots to add size.

There are a number of small buds popping out now so the tree is attempting growth since repotting even which gives me hope.

The large bud at the top has been there for the best part of 6 months now without opening which don't know what to think about ... I would have e though it would have opened by now no?

Removing needles that are already dead will not force the the tree to push out new needles.
Those dead needles are not doing anything for the tree.
Only the tree's energy reserves, strength and will to live will allow it to push new growth.

Pines form buds at the end of summer the previous year. Those buds do not open until spring.
My pines formed buds in August/September last year and they have not opened yet but they are starting to look like they are swelling and getting ready for spring growth.

If that bud has shrunk in size, it doesnt look good. You can only hope it has the strength to continue growing the new growth

 

[sm314]

Removing needles that are already dead will not force the the tree to push out new needles.
Those dead needles are not doing anything for the tree.
Only the tree's energy reserves, strength and will to live will allow it to push new growth.

Pines form buds at the end of summer the previous year. Those buds do not open until spring.
My pines formed buds in August/September last year and they have not opened yet but they are starting to look like they are swelling and getting ready for spring growth.

If that bud has shrunk in size, it doesnt look good. You can only hope it has the strength to continue growing the new growth

This is why I joined the forum ... Better to learn from ppl than just reading so many different views on webpages.

I had read that pulling the needles would force somewhat dormant buds underneath to awaken.

I shall keep up hope ... Thx for the advice

 

[Paradox]

This is why I joined the forum ... Better to learn from ppl than just reading so many different views on webpages.

I had read that pulling the needles would force somewhat dormant buds underneath to awaken.

I shall keep up hope ... Thx for the advice

Pulling needles is something we to trees that are further along in their development than yours, are healthy and not sick and weak as yours now is.
Its not a guarantee that buds will be "forced" when you pull needles. Its more to get sunlight into the tree and to try and get latent buds to pop.

 

[sm314]

Hi guys hope you are well.

Happy to say my black pine is still kicking and is pushing out new growth. Mainly from the bottom of the tree (pics attached)

Still no movement on the terminal bud opening ... Thoughts at this point ?

Regarding the growth at the bottom any advice what to do it's pushing out and growing but seemingly I and amongst the old growth any advise appreciated.

Thanks for the help

Sam

 

[Paradox]

Advice is the same: keep giving it some sun and water when it needs it, otherwise leave it alone.

 

[Srt8madness]

Leave it alone. Just water it and don't touch it for like a year. If it lives it will be in great shape, if it dies then it would have definitely died sooner from over attention.

 

[Srt8madness]

I dont think it is too far gone....yet, but its not far from it.
A repot will not solve the problem or help the tree at this point though.

The bud you mention looks fine, it shouldn't be opening yet.
Buds form in the fall and just sit all winter and open in the spring so its probably too early for that right now.

First some questions for you.
Where are you located? Please put your location on your profile so we dont have to repeatedly ask.
How often are you watering it?
Does it drain when you water?

EDIT: I missed a couple of details from reading too fast...
As mentioned below, inside is a death sentence for a pine. They can not live inside, they need a dormancy period which is an extended period (months) below 40 degrees F.
Unfortunately, if it hasnt had a chance to get ready for dormancy in the fall from cooler temperatures and shorter days because its been inside, just throwing it outside now probably wont work unless its above 40 degrees F at least.

Since this thread is still popping up, I would like to correct this misinformation. Neither "pines" in general or specifically JBP require "months" of sub 40 degree dormancy. Posts like this kept me from starting JBP for about a year after I got into bonsai.
Some specific pine cultivars like JWP do require that level of cold, but it is far from universal.

 

[Paradox]

Since this thread is still popping up, I would like to correct this misinformation. Neither "pines" in general or specifically JBP require "months" of sub 40 degree dormancy. Posts like this kept me from starting JBP for about a year after I got into bonsai.
Some specific pine cultivars like JWP do require that level of cold, but it is far from universal.

JBP are not tropical trees, they do require dormancy. It's true they don't need the same level of cold as JWP, which I've been told want it colder, but they still need a period of colder temperatures.

 

[sm314]

Thanks guys appreciated

 

[Srt8madness]

JBP are not tropical trees, they do require dormancy. It's true they don't need the same level of cold as JWP, which I've been told want it colder, but they still need a period of colder temperatures.

I really wasn't trying to be rude, I'm not sure why the debate? It's a fact that some pines perform just fine in warmer climates, JBP included.

 

[MaciekA]

JBP are not tropical trees, they do require dormancy. It's true they don't need the same level of cold as JWP, which I've been told want it colder, but they still need a period of colder temperatures.

JBP grows just fine in non-winter or outright tropical places. My source is Michael Hagedorn. He calls the growth weird but observes it is durable in those climates.

There are pines that are natively/originally from dormancy-inducing climates that do just fine in tropical regions and can even become invasive. Take a look around Mauna Kea or Haleakala and you’ll not only see those but also some cupressaceae-family species like cryptomeria dotted around there.

Pines die indoors because of vast differences in the number of photons physically reaching the needles, leading to starvation. A human eye will lie but a light measuring device won’t. Pines are light measuring devices too.

 

[Paradox]

I really wasn't trying to be rude, I'm not sure why the debate? It's a fact that some pines perform just fine in warmer climates, JBP included.

You basically accused me of spreading misinformation which I don't appreciate.
JBP is listed as zone 5-8. Houston is zone 8 so Id expect them to do fine there.
Markyscott used to live in Houston and IIRC he had a few JBP

 

[Paradox]

@marky

JBP grows just fine in non-winter or outright tropical places. My source is Michael Hagedorn. He calls the growth weird but observes it is durable in those climates.

There are pines that are natively/originally from dormancy-inducing climates that do just fine in tropical regions and can even become invasive. Take a look around Mauna Kea or Haleakala and you’ll not only see those but also some cupressaceae-family species like cryptomeria dotted around there.

Pines die indoors because of vast differences in the number of photons physically reaching the needles, leading to starvation. A human eye will lie but a light measuring device won’t. Pines are light measuring devices too.

So do you have any actual experience of your own or do you only parrot Michael Hagedorn?