Japanese maple from my growing bed

[MACH5]

It looks like you potted this in 100% akadama, correct? Did it work out well for you?

I planted a few things in pure akadama as well this year, and I am not happy with the results. For me, it stayed too wet and turned a little 'muddy'. Some trees even had a black -goop is the only word I can think of- form on the surface!! I only had this problem with trees in pure akadama.

Maybe I'm using the wrong brand?

Yes Joe, I almost always do for all my maples for now close to 25 years. Are you possibly be overwatering?

Akadama does brake down after about 3 years depending on the severity on your winters. Even when it's turned to dust my maples do not seem to care in the least.

 

[JoeR]

Yes Joe, I almost always do for all my maples for now close to 25 years. Are you possibly be overwatering?

Akadama does brake down after about 3 years depending on the severity on your winters. Even when it's turned to dust my maples do not seem to care in the least.

It's possible that I'm overwatering, but I don't think I am. The soil almost completely dries out between waterings. Especially with the smaller pots, like my seiju elm is in.

What size do you sift to? Maybe I used too fine of particles.

 

[MACH5]

It's possible that I'm overwatering, but I don't think I am. The soil almost completely dries out between waterings. Especially with the smaller pots, like my seiju elm is in.

What size do you sift to? Maybe I used too fine of particles.

It depends but on average I sift to 1/8" granules. Akadama is certainly not the only way. I'd say that if it's giving you trouble just change to something that works better for you.

 

[JoeR]

It depends but on average I sift to 1/8" granules. Akadama is certainly not the only way. I'd say that if it's giving you trouble just change to something that works better for you.

1/8", thats surprisingly small (though I also prefer smaller soil particles than most bonsaiists use). I will probably give akadama another shot next year, and if I'm still having problems I'll switch.

Thanks Serg, looking forward to the fall color shots!

 

[MACH5]

1/8", thats surprisingly small (though I also prefer smaller soil particles than most bonsaiists use). I will probably give akadama another shot next year, and if I'm still having problems I'll switch.

Thanks Serg, looking forward to the fall color shots!

Sure you bet Joe! Good luck with it and let us know how you fair next year. Thankfully there are many ways to skin a cat in bonsai.

 

[0soyoung]

Thankfully there are many ways to skin a cat in bonsai.

How true, but none of them are fast .

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

I can skin a tree in no-time

 

[Eric Group]

It looks like you potted this in 100% akadama, correct? Did it work out well for you?

I planted a few things in pure akadama as well this year, and I am not happy with the results. For me, it stayed too wet and turned a little 'muddy'. Some trees even had a black -goop is the only word I can think of- form on the surface!! I only had this problem with trees in pure akadama.

Maybe I'm using the wrong brand?

I had similar poor results with pure Akadama! No turning to mud, but trees stagnate to almost zero growth, poor root production, had that same black/green slime develop on the surface a few times... mine were in very small pots too, not what I expected at all. As a part of a mix with pumice and lava, I have had fantastic results, but used on its own Akadama does not yield good results for me. I had similar poor results in mixes of primarily pumice with a little pine bark. I have been trying to simplify soil mixes to find an easy, cheap option to grow out cuttings and seedlings. I did a whole cutting flat with 3-4 types of trees in a mix zi did with Pumice and pine bark, and everything has looked terrible! I suspect over half died...

The more I experiment, the more I find- for growing trees out, nothing beats DIRT! Potting soil, or ground growing if you have decent yard soil (I don't in my current yard... doesn't seem to matter what I do to supplement it!)... dirt is what they grow fastest/healthiest in.

 

[Dav4]

I have zero experience growing in pure akadama. With that said, I wonder how important it is to have a fairly well developed root system that's spread out over the majority of the pot and primed to quickly colonize the soil? I know both @Brian Van Fleet in AL, and @MACH5 in NJ, have had good success with straight akadama with their highly refined maples... almost a thousand miles away from each other...and in pretty shallow pots that are supposed to keep wetter soil....but with flattened and widely spreading, healthy roots....could it be that simple?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I have zero experience growing in pure akadama. With that said, I wonder how important it is to have a fairly well developed root system that's spread out over the majority of the pot and primed to quickly colonize the soil? I know both @Brian Van Fleet in AL, and @MACH5 in NJ, have had good success with straight akadama with their highly refined maples... almost a thousand miles away from each other...and in pretty shallow pots that are supposed to keep wetter soil....but with flattened and widely spreading, healthy roots....could it be that simple?

I actually believe people have some misunderstandings about how akadama should behave in pots; it's almost the same way new people ask why their leaves are turning colors this time of year. I've been using akadama for 15 years and while I can see what people describe as "breaking down into mush" or forming a "slime", I also know what that same pot full of soil and roots looks like just below the surface, and the roots are always exceptionally healthy, and the soil still has a granular integrity. Here are a few shots.
1. As unpotted this spring.
2. After bare-rooting, trimming, and arranging roots.
3. After all summer; all akadama, with a little sphagnum moss around the trunk to encourage a few new roots that appeared this summer:

Yes, you can pulverize dry akadama between a finger and thumb, and yes, you can pack a handful of wet akadama into a mudball...but there is no need to dig around in the soil once a tree is potted.

Additionally, its a good practice to rake off the top layer of soil in late summer and replace it with fresh soil to improve aeration and drainage. But I digress...I don't argue soil...

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I've started pure akadama in some of my deciduous trees, because its working out for M5. I'm loving it.

 

[JoeR]

I actually believe people have some misunderstandings about how akadama should behave in pots; it's almost the same way new people ask why their leaves are turning colors this time of year. I've been using akadama for 15 years and while I can see what people describe as "breaking down into mush" or forming a "slime", I also know what that same pot full of soil and roots looks like just below the surface, and the roots are always exceptionally healthy, and the soil still has a granular integrity. Here are a few shots.
1. As unpotted this spring.
2. After bare-rooting, trimming, and arranging roots.
3. After all summer; all akadama, with a little sphagnum moss around the trunk to encourage a few new roots that appeared this summer:
View attachment 120945 View attachment 120946 View attachment 120944
Yes, you can pulverize dry akadama between a finger and thumb, and yes, you can pack a handful of wet akadama into a mudball...but there is no need to dig around in the soil once a tree is potted.

Additionally, its a good practice to rake off the top layer of soil in late summer and replace it with fresh soil to improve aeration and drainage. But I digress...I don't argue soil...

I agree, just peeking in the soil it appears to have created much better (finer) root systems. It does still have a little granularity too. But, the slime/mold/whatever that formed on top of it is no bueno. Caused rot in the trunk of trees if it grew onto the trunk.

Does brand matter? I bought the "wrong" brand because It was less expensive. Still have a whole bag of it too.

 

[MACH5]

I had similar poor results with pure Akadama! No turning to mud, but trees stagnate to almost zero growth, poor root production, had that same black/green slime develop on the surface a few times... mine were in very small pots too, not what I expected at all. As a part of a mix with pumice and lava, I have had fantastic results, but used on its own Akadama does not yield good results for me. I had similar poor results in mixes of primarily pumice with a little pine bark. I have been trying to simplify soil mixes to find an easy, cheap option to grow out cuttings and seedlings. I did a whole cutting flat with 3-4 types of trees in a mix zi did with Pumice and pine bark, and everything has looked terrible! I suspect over half died...

The more I experiment, the more I find- for growing trees out, nothing beats DIRT! Potting soil, or ground growing if you have decent yard soil (I don't in my current yard... doesn't seem to matter what I do to supplement it!)... dirt is what they grow fastest/healthiest in.

WOW Eric! I am truly perplexed by your poor experience with akadama. To say that growth was even stagnated is puzzling to me. I will say that my experience has been completely at the other end of the spectrum. Like BVF, my growth is as good as can be expected and root systems are always highly fibrous and dense. Sometimes roots even try and "jump" out of the pot! But as always, whatever works for you is what you should be doing. I truly believe in that!

I have zero experience growing in pure akadama. With that said, I wonder how important it is to have a fairly well developed root system that's spread out over the majority of the pot and primed to quickly colonize the soil? I know both @Brian Van Fleet in AL, and @MACH5 in NJ, have had good success with straight akadama with their highly refined maples... almost a thousand miles away from each other...and in pretty shallow pots that are supposed to keep wetter soil....but with flattened and widely spreading, healthy roots....could it be that simple?

Dave yes, perhaps is that simple?? IDK. I use it because is simple with no mixing involved with just a bit of sifting. Sometimes I have mixed in some pumice mostly to keep soil open and prevent it from compacting too much. But results have been the same for me whether I use the pumice or not. The biggest drawback with akadama is price.

FWIW I have used it with trees with highly developed root systems as well as those with less developed ones. In either case the results have been excellent. It is perhaps worth noting that akadama is a soil that works along with the roots. As they grow and divide, akadama brakes down which allows it to retain more water to supply the ever increasing number of the fine feeder roots. There is a braking point however, at which time the soil becomes so fine that it clumps up and inhibits good drainage and not useful anymore. Repotting should always be done before this even happens.

I agree, just peeking in the soil it appears to have created much better (finer) root systems. It does still have a little granularity too. But, the slime/mold/whatever that formed on top of it is no bueno. Caused rot in the trunk of trees if it grew onto the trunk.

Does brand matter? I bought the "wrong" brand because It was less expensive. Still have a whole bag of it too.

Joe I could be wrong, but I highly doubt is a brand problem. There is something else going on.

 

[Eric Group]

I actually believe people have some misunderstandings about how akadama should behave in pots; it's almost the same way new people ask why their leaves are turning colors this time of year. I've been using akadama for 15 years and while I can see what people describe as "breaking down into mush" or forming a "slime", I also know what that same pot full of soil and roots looks like just below the surface, and the roots are always exceptionally healthy, and the soil still has a granular integrity. Here are a few shots.
1. As unpotted this spring.
2. After bare-rooting, trimming, and arranging roots.
3. After all summer; all akadama, with a little sphagnum moss around the trunk to encourage a few new roots that appeared this summer:
View attachment 120945 View attachment 120946 View attachment 120944
Yes, you can pulverize dry akadama between a finger and thumb, and yes, you can pack a handful of wet akadama into a mudball...but there is no need to dig around in the soil once a tree is potted.

Additionally, its a good practice to rake off the top layer of soil in late summer and replace it with fresh soil to improve aeration and drainage. But I digress...I don't argue soil...

That's just it though... Maples, Elms, everything I have tried growing in pure Akadama does NOT produce healthy roots, rapid growth... if my results were good, I would not worry about what the soil surface looks like. Growth is stagnated, root growth is non existent and I don't get it. Combine Akadama/pumice/lava= fantastic! Growth, roots, health overall are great! But Akadama by itself has been an absolute disaster. I don't know how to account for it, but this just speaks to how different people/ different regions produce different results from the same products especially when it comes to soil.

Now, in thinking about it I tend to agree with Dave- most the trees I was trying in just Akadama were cuttings and younger trees I was trying to grow out and develop. In a Japanese Blog I read a lot, he grows his Maples out in large trays of Akadama usually it looks like, so as I try to emulate his results, I figured it was time to give it a try. Akadama is expensive here, but if it gave me some added benefit I would use it on it's own. I should probably try some more mature Bonsai in it instead of young trees..

 

[Drew]

I will update later in fall when leaves drop. Stay tuned!

@MACH5 how is this tree progressing? have you still got it? would be good to see an update.

 

[Yoppyx]

Hello good sir, did you use a specific wood for your training box? Are there any resources on how to optimally build them?

 

[barrosinc]

Hello good sir, did you use a specific wood for your training box? Are there any resources on how to optimally build them?

I use plain pine wood... they last for like 3 or 4 years. Some people use plywood as it is easier to get it to the size you want and is cheap, but my guess is it wouldn't last a bit less.
There is no major complication regarding these... just do the sketch on a piece of paper to dimmension the pieces.

 

[MACH5]

@MACH5 how is this tree progressing? have you still got it? would be good to see an update.

Drew I sold this tree last year. It was doing very well.

 

[barrosinc]

Stop selling stuff!!! We want progression threads.
#m5treesmatter

 

[MACH5]

Stop selling stuff!!! We want progression threads.
#m5treesmatter

LOL! My collection is beginning to settle down and stabilize. I don’t have much now that I am willing to part with. I had to go through a period of significant reconstruction.