Is mycorrhizal inoculant helpful to bonsai trees?

[Cajunrider]

I bought some and put it on my JBP, JM, and Azaleas eventhough I'm not sure it will help anything. What are your experiences with mycorrhizal inoculants?

 

[rockm]

Not necessary. Expensive and possibly useless.

Myc isn't a single kind of thing. There are hundreds of kinds all adapted to specific species from what I've read. Applying even the few that are presentin the inoculant probably isn't going to do much of anything.

My experience is that the proper kind of myc develops ON ITS OWN in bonsai pots. ... FREE

 

[Cajunrider]

Not necessary. Expensive and possibly useless.

Myc isn't a single kind of thing. There are hundreds of kinds all adapted to specific species from what I've read. Applying even the few that are presentin the inoculant probably isn't going to do much of anything.

My experience is that the proper kind of myc develops ON ITS OWN in bonsai pots. ... FREE

Good to know. I only spent a few bucks so no harm no foul. It's a part of the learning experience.

 

[Paulpash]

If you get the substrate right & water appropriately it'll appear by itself. Take pines as a perfect example - you will never find mycorrhiza in a continually moist root mass. If you allow it to get on the dry side it'll develop.

 

[rockm]

If you get the substrate right & water appropriately it'll appear by itself. Take pines as a perfect example - you will never find mycorrhiza in a continually moist root mass. If you allow it to get on the dry side it'll develop.

Same for oaks.

 

[Colorado]

If you get the substrate right & water appropriately it'll appear by itself. Take pines as a perfect example - you will never find mycorrhiza in a continually moist root mass. If you allow it to get on the dry side it'll develop.

I’m pretty inexperienced with pines, but I have a few that seem to be developing okay. I’m not quite sure I have the watering just right yet. They’re in 1:1:1 akadama, lava, pumice.

Do you let them dry out all the way between waterings?

 

[Paulpash]

Same for oaks.

By this logic it seems a well oxygenated rhizosphere is a pre requisite for mycorrhizal colonization. I have seen it in organic, inorganic and mixed substrates.

 

[Cajunrider]

If you get the substrate right & water appropriately it'll appear by itself. Take pines as a perfect example - you will never find mycorrhiza in a continually moist root mass. If you allow it to get on the dry side it'll develop.

That explains why I hardly ever see them in the ground where I am in Louisiana. After several hurricanes, I've seen thousands of trees uprooted in my area including dozens on my properties. I seldom saw any mycorrhizae on the roots of pines or any tree for that matter.

 

[Paulpash]

I’m pretty inexperienced with pines, but I have a few that seem to be developing okay. I’m not quite sure I have the watering just right yet. They’re in 1:1:1 akadama, lava, pumice.

Do you let them dry out all the way between waterings?

I do allow them to dry out but even then there are nuances, eg Mugo like more water (but still free draining) whereas white pines need less water to flourish. You can either adjust how you water or your mix.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If you get the substrate right & water appropriately it'll appear by itself.

Let me just add... this includes getting the soil pH on the acidic side. This may happen naturally if you use pine bark mulch, oak leaf mulch or rough cut peat, if you have naturally acidic water, if you use acid fertilizer, or if your inorganic soil blend is acidic (like kanuma).

It's a little bit of a chicken and egg. Do pines and oaks like acidic soil because those conditions allow mycorrhizae to flourish? Or does mycorrhizae flourish in acidic soil because it has adapted to the conditions in which pines and oaks thrive naturally?

 

[GGB]

Soil science says organic fertilizers will feed fungi and chemical ferts will destroy it. Never ran any experiemtns but I can tell you im fungi deficient after years of miracle grow. Almost all my trees are too wet also though. I do use gnarly roots myco innoculant now, and happy frog acid fertilizer, which is loaded with beneficial fungi strains. Like rockm said it's probably mostly not nought, but it certainy isn't hurting. The stuff works great. And now I know how important fish hydrolysates and humates are. I recommend surfing the web this winter and learning about fungi, their relationships with trees, how to create an evironment for them, and how to avoid bacteria in the soil. You can utilize your notes for spring of 2020 repot. Wild stuff!

 

[GGB]

touching on the oak leaf mould... I have read at least two..? . been years ... articles about incorporating tiny amounts of rich native soil/leaf mould into a bonsai soil mix to jump start the soil. If you grow natives take the soil from near a tree of the same species in a thriving forest, or at least same genus if using non natives. I guess there's a risk for disease and pests but if the nearby trees are healthy I would think any healthy tree would fair fine. I'm 100% regurgitating right now. I understand it's an offense in some situations. But you strike me as someone who's willing to give things a try. I know I plan to do this myself with my summer pine repots

 

[rockm]

Soil science says organic fertilizers will feed fungi and chemical ferts will destroy it. Never ran any experiemtns but I can tell you im fungi deficient after years of miracle grow. Almost all my trees are too wet also though. I do use gnarly roots myco innoculant now, and happy frog acid fertilizer, which is loaded with beneficial fungi strains. Like rockm said it's probably mostly not nought, but it certainy isn't hurting. The stuff works great. And now I know how important fish hydrolysates and humates are. I recommend surfing the web this winter and learning about fungi, their relationships with trees, how to create an evironment for them, and how to avoid bacteria in the soil. You can utilize your notes for spring of 2020 repot. Wild stuff!

FWIW, I use primarily "chemical" ferts on my oak. hasn't made a difference in the myc colony in the soil. I have not used any inoculant on it, nor fish or humates...I mostly don't do anything. It appears and thrives on its own...

 

[GGB]

FWIW, I use primarily "chemical" ferts on my oak. hasn't made a difference in the myc colony in the soil. I have not used any inoculant on it, nor fish or humates...I mostly don't do anything. It appears and thrives on its own...

ha that's why we don't (or shouldn't) repeat what we haven't proven through experience. If that's your experience rockm, I'd say there's no rules against. Sometimes I get so caught up in my articles, scientific or otherwise. But still, I can't help but think that organic ferts with lower level nutrients and miconutrients create a more friendly habitat. Guess I'll just be quiet til I have a few organic seasons under my belt

 

[rockm]

ha that's why we don't (or shouldn't) repeat what we haven't proven through experience. If that's your experience rockm, I'd say there's no rules against. Sometimes I get so caught up in my articles, scientific or otherwise. But still, I can't help but think that organic ferts with lower level nutrients and miconutrients create a more friendly habitat. Guess I'll just be quiet til I have a few organic seasons under my belt

I've used both Japanese "organic" pellets and chems (sometimes at the same time), but the chemical is regular every week. I use regular old bonsai soil which has sifted bark in it, not a lot,, but some.

 

[Paulpash]

My experience matches @rockm too - I mostly use miracle gro and supplement with a bit of organic fert.

 

[Paulpash]

Same as @rockm - I've tried the premium stuff like BioGold & Green Dream as well as Chicken manure pellets, miracle gro & slow release chemical fertilizer. None is any better than the other but the first 2 are a lot more expensive. The trees don't give a shit about logos - just light & water primarily then a few macro and micro nutrients.

 

[AaronG]

I know I see them on the soil/roots of almost all of my trees, and I have used inorganic fertilizer for a long time. I recently switched to mainly organic, but that was more because I prefer an organic approach to taking care of plants. I was reading a bonsai book the other day and they mentioned adding SuperThrive because they had witnessed the positive effects of it. It just made me pause and think about all the mystery around soil science. Mycorrihizal bacteria does seem to form in a pot on their own, but why? Where do they come from? And this seems to flow gracefully into the conversation about the benefits of organic practices at-large. It amazes me that there isn't any hard data on this that someone can point to when it seems like it would be an easy thing to experiment from a scientific standpoint and with the nursery business as big as it is, I'm not sure why a study hasn't been funded. Maybe they have, and those studies were never made public because they were sponsored by private money.

 

[Colorado]

https://www.soilfoodweb.com/

Ask and ye’ Shall receive!

 

[rockm]

I know I see them on the soil/roots of almost all of my trees, and I have used inorganic fertilizer for a long time. I recently switched to mainly organic, but that was more because I prefer an organic approach to taking care of plants. I was reading a bonsai book the other day and they mentioned adding SuperThrive because they had witnessed the positive effects of it. It just made me pause and think about all the mystery around soil science. Mycorrihizal bacteria does seem to form in a pot on their own, but why? Where do they come from? And this seems to flow gracefully into the conversation about the benefits of organic practices at-large. It amazes me that there isn't any hard data on this that someone can point to when it seems like it would be an easy thing to experiment from a scientific standpoint and with the nursery business as big as it is, I'm not sure why a study hasn't been funded. Maybe they have, and those studies were never made public because they were sponsored by private money.

Myc is not bacterial. It is fungal, Fungus, like mushrooms, spread by spores on the wind. Which is how myc finds its way into bonsai pots. The nursery business HAS found out about myc. They're making money on it, selling supplements.