Inground JRP needles yellowing

[MGTT]

I’ve had a JRP inground for a few years and the needles are really starting to yellow. The needles looked ok during the growing season, but I was starting to see some signs that yellowing was coming.
I’ve other pines (JBP & JRP in pots that have no yellowing, their needles look okay).

But, I previously had a JBP in the same grow bed (but a different spot), and it experienced the same yellowing after a few years. I dug it up this year and it subsequently died (due to the yellowing/inground conditions or too much root pruning??? I don’t know).

I don’t plan on digging this up for a few more years as I’m working on healing some cuts. But, I don’t want it to continue to deteriorate. Any thoughts??

Note - I’m not sure if this is relevant, but I’m pretty sure I used a shovel to cut off any extending roots this past Spring - maybe a foot/150mm from the trunk. I think I did the same to the JBP the year before I dug it up.

 

[bwaynef]

This looks like a nutrient issue, but I'd start with trying to figure out the soil pH and water pH. Water's not likely the problem if your other trees aren't exhibiting problems. My initial suspicion is that pH is preventing the tree from taking up iron, but it could be some other nutrient just as easily. (Magnesium and Manganese cause yellowing as well, though not usually uniformly across the needle ...and not likely for it to be uniform across the plant either. Nitrogen deficiency can cause poor color as well.)

 

[Shibui]

Nutrient deficiency is rare when growing in ground. Usually shows up in pots because potting soils are deficient.
Cutting roots out that far is also unlikely to be the cause.
I'd be looking at some sort of root problem. pH is possible. Waterlogged could be another cause. Do you know what type of soil you have and what, if any, improvements have been added?

 

[MGTT]

While I would occasionally water the bed with tap water, same source used for my potted trees, it mostly just gets watered with rain.

The soil is basically ‘dirt’ - similar to what a big box store would sell in bags to fill low spots in lawns, etc. The dirt is about 3-4”/75-100mm deep. Below that is clay soil.

The grow bed is on top of a slight slope - the bed itself has about a 5degree slope, and just past the wood edge, the grade drops about 3feet/1meter.
I don’t know for sure, but I don’t ever notice the bed retaining water, and trees dug up havent shown any signs of root rot - but the sample size is small, maybe a dozen trees have been dug up from this bed.

I will look into measuring the soil ph - thanks for the advice!

 

[Scorpius]

Dirt and clay soil don't usually mix well with pines. I'm suspecting root issues of some sort.

 

[MGTT]

Interesting. The responses motivated me to look closer at the areas landscaping trees, and I now see that we actually don’t have many pines locally - lots of Fir, but not many/any pines.

Maybe my plan should be to dig it up in the Spring and put it in a grow box with very minimal root disturbance, just removal of loose portions of soil, let it regain some strength and do more soil removal during subsequent repots. All this is dependent on what the roots look like.

 

[MGTT]

The tree continued yellowing over the winter, and during early spring, it really started looking bad.
So, I risked an early lift from the bed and put it into a box with very minimal root disturbance - I basically just tried shaking off the field soil , no root trimming.
It still doesn’t look happy, but I’m seeing no further degradation (and, fingers crossed, some improvement), and the candles are extending.
I’m waiting (and hoping) the upper branches live before I remove any branches.


Here’s two JBP’s, the left one was lifted this spring, the right one has always been in a container - the one on the left had been in the grow bed 2 years, less than half the time of the Red Pine.


@Scorpius - thanks for the input. I pulled it up early based on your comment (assuming I couldn’t change the soil composition I definitely noticed the roots were NOT happy (vs other potted pines repotted this spring). Unfortunately, for better or worse, it looks like I’m done with inground growing of pines.
On the other hand, Trident Maple absolutely love the grow bed!

@bwaynef @Shibui - my very cheap ph meter showed a ph of 6.5-7.0. I’m not sure if that’s significant. Another factor, these trees were within 1-3’ (<1m) from a strawberry patch. Could that have had any effect? The strawberry shoots definitely end up in the grow bed over the course of the summer - they are very active!!

 

[MGTT]

Fortunately, the Red Pine continues to recover in the box. The needles are getting more turgid, and they seem to be recovering their color. All the candles seem to be extending, and I only lost a few branches.

By the way, are these the beginnings of cones? @Shibui

 

[Shibui]

Your tree is producing male pollen cones. Female cones develop at the tip of candles, rarely on the sides of candles like these.

 

[MGTT]

The tree continues to recover. It was touch and go throughout spring, but I didn’t touch it, and the growth is good. I did loose a few branches, but the overall structure is still ok.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Well done!

Cheers
DSD Sends

 

[MGTT]

Spring 25 update.
Much better color this spring, as well as a lot of budding - mostly at the tips, but there are some back buds. It appears mostly ‘normal’ now.

I’m planning to mostly leave it alone this year to let it get even stronger. I’ll see how it’s growing, but it should be ready for some pruning and wiring in the Fall.
Any thoughts on removing excess buds now? Or am I better off pruning all excess /unwanted growth in the fall?

 

[bwaynef]

The more buds allowed to grow at this stage, the less each of them will grow. If you're ready to start refining, leave them. If you're wanting coarser growth, remove them. I can't tell from the pics what's going on with the trunk, so you're going to have to decide.

 

[MGTT]

I understand, it’s hard to get a good picture.

But that’s great info. I do want more branch and trunk growth-I’ve left a leader at the top for the trunk. And, I’ll address the buds as needed.

This will never be a good tree, but it now has sentimental value since it lived…

Thanks!

 

[MaciekA]

It would be relatively safe to wire some structure into the branches later this year, say late summer/early fall, if you saw the right signs in the foliage.

You could build confidence about the safety of this by just observing the quality and quantity of the needle flush this year.

Say it's late August, and you are now looking at an even bigger / thicker / higher count needle / better color needle than last year, sharp/stiff when touched. If that's the case, there should be enough safety margin to at least wire down the primary branches out to the tips and spread them out to remove self-shading. Doing that will give a relative advantage to interior buds/shoots without weakening or cutting anything away from the tree. Then tree can then passively begin the process of strenghtening the interior shoots/buds as a result. Doing that hastens how soon in a future season you could hope to cut back to those interior shoots/buds.

The upcoming bud looks reasonably strong. If the needles come out quick & large instead of late & tiny, then you're likely past the danger zone and could risk that wiredown at the end of the summer. You could see how it goes and revisit after that wiredown.

I would fertilize well and continuously (until fall) once it is obvious the needles are coming out as happy needles.

 

[MGTT]

Great info-thank you!