Everything in the stores that I have gone to is either a bonsai with that crappy glued down soil, or a almost full grown tree, trust me I have looked around, and the one from the first thread I got rid of because some of the comments were unwelcoming, and quite honestly perceived as rude. Just like over half of the comments on this thread, which only a couple have been helpful. And I didn't even want to try with it anymore because I felt so bad about it. I used Brian's advice and found a shrub which is larger and will hopefully make a nice bonsai.
In need of advice from pros.
- Thread starter medlefang
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Don't look for "bonsai" at stores. That is a dead end. Look in nurseries at "full grown" shrubs, trees, etc. Bonsai are not grown from small plants. They are cut down from larger ones. In other words, the "full grown" tree in a container is raw stock that is drastically reduced, i.e. chopped down to a third or less of the original plant. It can be difficult to "see" a bonsai in such a plant, but that's where large(r) bonsai come from. The three foot tall elm bonsai you see in books most likely started as a 20 foot tall tree in the ground or in a container. The saplings they sell at Home Depot's garden section or the local nursery are good place to start looking.
You're looking at the first foot or two of the trunk as the foundation for your bonsai, the remaining 15 or 20 feet is of no real importance. It is removed and a new branch and apex is developed from the new shoots that the tree will make after the top is removed.
It's not all that easy to get your head around that concept, that you won't be using most of what you've bought. Same is true for collecting trees. This oak was originally a 25 foot tree growing in a pasture in Texas. Only the first two feet of its original trunk remain here. All the branching on it has been regrown.
You're looking at the first foot or two of the trunk as the foundation for your bonsai, the remaining 15 or 20 feet is of no real importance. It is removed and a new branch and apex is developed from the new shoots that the tree will make after the top is removed.
It's not all that easy to get your head around that concept, that you won't be using most of what you've bought. Same is true for collecting trees. This oak was originally a 25 foot tree growing in a pasture in Texas. Only the first two feet of its original trunk remain here. All the branching on it has been regrown.
Ok I'll be sure to do that when looking! Thanks for the helpful advice! The shrub I found was like 4 feet tall and I cut off most of it, it looks like this now, the trunk isn't huge but I want to do something with it, I just need to pick a style. It's a bush honey suckle, I saw some bonsai of them online and liked how they looked, plus it's invasive so I'm not hurting the environment taking one, I'm helping it
also when I go back later this week to find another tree to start(because I want more then one of they don't survive) do I just use a saw to cut off most of the tree? How thick should the trunk be? Also I put in a picture of a honey suckle one just to show its possible, and I know it's kind of yucky material but I want something I can train and not kill for practice. Also if you think the one I collected isn't good enough there are some really large ones I can cut short(the wood becomes hollow so I didn't know if I could do that) and you can see in the background the woods where I can collect. I live in Indiana so if there are any species you suggest tell me! And if the one I picked isn't doable I will get rid of it, and try to find something better.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You're rushing into this without thinking. Patience is a big part of bonsai. You're much better off buying some $10pear tree saplings or other cheap deciduous saplings from Home Depot or a nursery. Those containerized trees will teach you more than this will because they already have contaneriazed compact root systems that will more quickly recover from bonsai treatment.
Also, You will kill collected material with the soil you're using. I know, I know, it's the soil the plant was growing in. The problem is, it's no longer in the ground. Soil behaves much differently in a container than in the ground. Using such muddy, fine soil will suffocate new roots (although honeysuckle will grow in just about anything. However, it will grow a lot better if you use bonsai soil).
The size of trunk is up to you. What size tree are you looking to create? That's the determination.
A word of advice, don't start bonsai using collected material. It may be "free" but this approach will cost you in time and effort. You are complicating your learning by a factor of ten or so. You can't work on recently collected plants. It takes at least a year for them to recover from the trauma you've put them through. Working on such a plant will likely kill it, even if it's a honeysuckle.
I would save those plants in the woods for a time when you know how to handle them, instead of wasting them on your first efforts--which will inevitably die. Happens to all of us.
Also, You will kill collected material with the soil you're using. I know, I know, it's the soil the plant was growing in. The problem is, it's no longer in the ground. Soil behaves much differently in a container than in the ground. Using such muddy, fine soil will suffocate new roots (although honeysuckle will grow in just about anything. However, it will grow a lot better if you use bonsai soil).
The size of trunk is up to you. What size tree are you looking to create? That's the determination.
A word of advice, don't start bonsai using collected material. It may be "free" but this approach will cost you in time and effort. You are complicating your learning by a factor of ten or so. You can't work on recently collected plants. It takes at least a year for them to recover from the trauma you've put them through. Working on such a plant will likely kill it, even if it's a honeysuckle.
I would save those plants in the woods for a time when you know how to handle them, instead of wasting them on your first efforts--which will inevitably die. Happens to all of us.
Ok I will save those! As for the soil it's actually a mix of potting soil and the original soil. And I can wait a year before training it, and I will look for some trees next time I am at walmart(my mother bought me some pear trees there for like $8 cause they were on sale, but I want those for fruit) and by trees I meant shrubs too, if there is anything that is good to use. Any suggestions? I need a list. I know there are dormant rose bushes on sale at my local tractor supply but they are just trunks and half are almost dead.
lieuz
Chumono
@rockm what you just described sounded a lot like the phase when I had planted aquatic tanks. The smaller the tank, the more susceptible it will be to crazy chemical imbalances (mood swings) and things head downhill faster, practically a blink of an eye . Larger tanks with a bigger biomass can take on more wear and tear. never thought I'd ever have to think about my planted tank days again; however, that concept is pretty much universal. thanks for bringing up fond memories .
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It is EXACTLY the same thing. I used to have saltwater reef tanks 25 years ago--when the tech to support them was relatively primitive. Found then that bigger tanks are easier because of the buffer capacity of the water. Mistakes aren't as critical in a 200 gal. tank as they are in a 15. Chemical balances are harder to establish and maintain with small tanks. Substitute "trees" for tanks and the same principles apply. Mass can bring stability.@rockm what you just described sounded a lot like the phase when I had planted aquatic tanks. The smaller the tank, the more susceptible it will be to crazy chemical imbalances (mood swings) and things head downhill faster, practically a blink of an eye . Larger tanks with a bigger biomass can take on more wear and tear. never thought I'd ever have to think about my planted tank days again; however, that concept is pretty much universal. thanks for bringing up fond memories
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I suggest you go to the library and get as many bonsai books as you can and READ THEM. The Internet can be very very confusing, and unreliable as you can't really tell who is experienced and who is just talking the talk to impress others. Books are typically written by people who know what they're talking about. Do a search here on "good bonsai books" and you will see some of the titles.
Good starter plants include boxwood, any kind of elm, really any deciduous tree species that is grown as landscaping in your area (which is an important factor when winter comes and you have to store them during their dormancy period). Japanese maples are a good choice too. Trident maples are even better and are pretty indestructible. You can get seedling Trident maples and others from a number of sources online including here:
https://kaedebonsai-en.com/shop/product-category/bare-root-seedlings/
and here:
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/page/1442817
as well as a few other places too.
Pines are not really beginner's trees, as they can be a bit quirky in designing and care. They're not as straightforward as deciduous trees. Roses are not a good choice. They don't produce new branching as readily as elms and other trees. They also have thorns, which makes working on them a pain, literally.
You have to do something about your soil. It is the engine that runs your tree. Crappy engine means crappy or dead tree. The topic of soil is a spirited one, as many people have their own recipes and preferences. By and large, however, a bag of bonsai soil from a reputable vendor online is more than adequate starting out.
This is pretty good and you can get it from Walmart.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/38363132?...70543832&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=81462550832&veh=sem
This bag seems expensive, but you can probably pot a few medium sized trees with it.
Same stuff is here for $11, but shipping is going to add
http://shop.brusselsbonsai.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=8908&category=20
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I've got plenty of bonsai books, I have gone through them, so I know some stuff, they are very basic books so I will look for better ones and try to get better soil in my pot! As for the trees I'll keep an eye out, or buy some. Thanks so much for all the kind help, since some people here were kind of rude in their suggestions, I really appreciate it!!!
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Sure. No problem. People here (myself included on occasion) can seem rude at first, but they really are trying to help.
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