I went shopping for Ponderosa Pine yamadori

Walter Pall said:
Maybe the pictures don't do justice or you should go to Harrisburg or Chicago to shop. :)
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so wally, are you saying that Randy is unfairly marking up his trees if you purchase direct versus going to east? I believe most of those trees come from randy as well. correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Adair M said:
As much as it sounds like it would be a good idea to buy from Randy Knight direct, you know Ryan Neal would pick out the best ones first.
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That has been true for a few years. You will always get what ryan neil doesn't want. However, not bad leftovers!
 
parhamr said:
And I found 10 reasons to spend money!

I’ve flagged these trees at Randy Knight’s “Farm” so I can haggle and/or barter for how much he wants for them. If the price is right, I’m hoping to take home 3 or 4 of them. Trees H, J, and K are most tempting to me.

These are from his 2017 collecting trips, so they wouldn’t be ready for potting and styling until about 2020.
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If there is no major problem with the base which i cannot see in the picture, i would consider looking closely at G based on more foliage closer to the interior and more options for bending with the natural flow.
 
I'm a sucker for a twisty literati with deadwood, so K get's my vote, the G and E are very close behind. Also, J has a very powerful trunk... if it's got a nice base, too...:cool:. If I could only get 2 trees, it's be J and K.
 
LOVE trunk on J best:eek:! Can't figure one on H but looks most interesting. Congrats on monemtous decision. Please to post many pics with something to show size after decision made. If meeting Randy and not having lousy arrogant attitude can find decent deals. Most ANY tree he collects is worlds better than nursery stock or pre Bonsai and has charasteristic of genuine Age plus natural Character not obtainable elsewhere.
Shopped there 3 years past got 3 trees Great to "merely" very good. Was tempted to buy one $2000+ tree but would have shot budget for multiples. Grown up candy store Great place to go nuts/schitzo making up mindo_O.
 
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Most of the yamadori at the HG is Randy Knight or Andy Smith collected stuff. Trees in the $200-500 range will probably be "smaller" material. Those trees all look at least high 3 figure to low 4 figure cost trees.

Does Randy Knight publicly sell to regular local enthusiasts in your area? Or is it by appointment only or large orders by pros/nurseries?
 
My preferences are C, E, G. They have the best movement and interest imo. I personally like tight, subtle movement. Something more graceful but with still a lot of visual interest. Heavy movement in the trunk doesn't always make for a good tree. Since you are picking trees from the man himself you want to pick out the highest quality material you can afford. A, B, D are run of the mill ponderosas without defining good features. I suspect these may be sold cheaper though. So if budget is a big concern I'd go with B. The others have awkward movement, or lack there of.

Another consideration is the size of the tree. Maybe avoid buying the smaller ponderosas Randy sells. You said these ponderosas are from his 2017 collection trip so the needles on the tree right now are still pre-collection length. Once the trees establish post collection the needles can start getting really long. There were some MASSIVE ponderosas at the Hidden Gardens, well in excess of 100 lbs (I know because I helped move and pick them up) and even for their size they had some really long needles. Of course when you start building ramification and refine the tree needle length will naturally shorten but all the nice pondersoa bonsai I've seen are in the medium to large size. You're by Ryan Neil though and seems to have dialed down the technique in managing needle length.
 
bleumeon said:
Does Randy Knight publicly sell to regular local enthusiasts in your area? Or is it by appointment only or large orders by pros/nurseries?
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All of the above. Randy seems to be reasonably protective of his time. I think he’d like to know if a prospective new buyer will be worth the effort.
 
bleumeon said:
My preferences are C, E, G. They have the best movement and interest imo. I personally like tight, subtle movement. Something more graceful but with still a lot of visual interest. Heavy movement in the trunk doesn't always make for a good tree. Since you are picking trees from the man himself you want to pick out the highest quality material you can afford. A, B, D are run of the mill ponderosas without defining good features. I suspect these may be sold cheaper though. So if budget is a big concern I'd go with B. The others have awkward movement, or lack there of.

Another consideration is the size of the tree. Maybe avoid buying the smaller ponderosas Randy sells. You said these ponderosas are from his 2017 collection trip so the needles on the tree right now are still pre-collection length. Once the trees establish post collection the needles can start getting really long. There were some MASSIVE ponderosas at the Hidden Gardens, well in excess of 100 lbs (I know because I helped move and pick them up) and even for their size they had some really long needles. Of course when you start building ramification and refine the tree needle length will naturally shorten but all the nice pondersoa bonsai I've seen are in the medium to large size. You're by Ryan Neil though and seems to have dialed down the technique in managing needle length.
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If you live in an environment where you can keep the needles short, then a small Pondy is ok. Where I live, the needles grow all summer long! So I have a Pondy that’s 18 inches tall, with 6 inch needles!
 
Tangentially being on the margins of different nursery businesses, I can verify that the retail sale of one plant often consumes more time than any single wholesale deal. It seems every time I sell a single $20 orchid, often it seems the purchaser wants a piece of my soul for that $20. Much time is consumed in the back and forth discussion.

When I purchase wholesale, or sell wholesale, often I can work out the details of a 100 plant deal in less than 20% of the time a single retail plant sale would require. Given my experience, it is very reasonable that a nursery charge significantly more for the retail, one at a time plant. The sale effort alone is 3 to 5 times more time consuming. Randy also does not want to become competition with his wholesale customers. The wholesale customers re-order every years, sometimes more than once a year. You need to keep them happy, I never sell a plant I wholesaled at a price less than what my wholesale customers end up retailing the plant at. (within reason). That is because I want my wholesale customers to keep on coming back to me. It makes good sense.

By the way the Harrisburge mentioned for Nature's Way is in Pennsylvania, not Oregon.

Hidden Gardens - to know which trees came from where, you need to ask the owners. They have trees collected by Randy Knight, Todd Schlafer, and Andy Smith and I believe some material collected by other people. They are not exclusive in who they purchase from. HG has a very nice variety of collected species, and that is possible because they buy from a number of collectors. I know, I got a Todd Schlafer collected tree from Hidden Gardens. So ask when you are looking at trees to purchase, don't assume they all came from Randy Knight, because they did not.
 
Aw yeah. Looks like it'll be fun to develop. I only have one yamadori but hope to build my collection in the future.
 
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