How to style trident maple

[Leo in N E Illinois]

the last one, wide open root over rock is a nice example. Very much different from what normally is seen.
But your pictures do show: Most tridents have very strongly haning branches, more often seen in confifers.

Question remains whether this is their natural growth habit, or really a design choice made for this species. And if so, why.

The answer is available if you get out of bonsai websites and look at images from China, North Korea, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan of old trident maples growing in their landscapes. Those are the countries it is native, look for images from those areas that include trident maples. You might also look for 100 year old trees in arboretums and botanic gardens around the world. According to Wikipedia, the trident maple was introduced to Europe and USA in 1896, so in theory you should be able to find European specimens possibly as old as 120 years old give or take. Check your local botanic garden or arboretum. You may be able to see how a mature specimen looks.

A poor start is the Wikimedia page. Note some of the photos are from Korea and Japan.

Acer buergerianum - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

From the little surfing I did writing this post, the "natural form" for the trident maple seems similar to the form for Acer rubrum and many of the other north American native maples. Pretty similar to Acer palmatum too. So in all likelyhood the "single trunk pine tree style" you dislike is not a common shape for trees in the wild. An informal broom like shape seems to be the common theme for Acer buergerianum.

 

[Adair M]

The answer is available if you get out of bonsai websites and look at images from China, North Korea, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan of old trident maples growing in their landscapes. Those are the countries it is native, look for images from those areas that include trident maples. You might also look for 100 year old trees in arboretums and botanic gardens around the world. According to Wikipedia, the trident maple was introduced to Europe and USA in 1896, so in theory you should be able to find European specimens possibly as old as 120 years old give or take. Check your local botanic garden or arboretum. You may be able to see how a mature specimen looks.

A poor start is the Wikimedia page. Note some of the photos are from Korea and Japan.

Acer buergerianum - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

From the little surfing I did writing this post, the "natural form" for the trident maple seems similar to the form for Acer rubrum and many of the other north American native maples. Pretty similar to Acer palmatum too. So in all likelyhood the "single trunk pine tree style" you dislike is not a common shape for trees in the wild. An informal broom like shape seems to be the common theme for Acer buergerianum.

That said, Leo, we often train bonsai to be a style we humans like, regardless of the plant’s natural form.

Exhibit A: azalea. When have you ever seen an single trunk azalea growing in the ground in someone’s landscape? It’s a shrub. We humans have taken them and forced them into single trunk “trees”.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Question remains whether this is their natural growth habit, or really a design choice made for this species. And if so, why.

natural growth habit...you ask.

As we prune,wire and manipulate in our hobby. Every artist has their own style to a degree. Don't steal the joy from over analyzing. There certainly not just one way to skin a cat.

 

[leatherback]

Don't steal the joy from over analyzing. There certainly not just one way to skin a cat.

True.
That being said.. I now have a biggish trunk in my garden, and a few dozen seedlings: If there is a time to look into this it is now, and not in 20 years, when looking back thinking "what if".

So.. It is not the natural growing habit.
Next question that pops in my mind: Why are most of them styled this way? Is there a maintenance benefit? Health benefit? Or does it just look more organized? I mean, in Japan they are very good at catching tiny details and improving them. It cannot be not just at random that this is the main style you see, right?

 

[leatherback]

The answer is available if you get out of bonsai websites and look at images from China, North Korea, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan of old trident maples growing in their landscapes.

You are absolutely right. I do that too. I am trying to get my head around the styling used though, and also why this way, if this is not their natural habit.

 

[Cadillactaste]

True.
That being said.. I now have a biggish trunk in my garden, and a few dozen seedlings: If there is a time to look into this it is now, and not in 20 years, when looking back thinking "what if".

So.. It is not the natural growing habit.
Next question that pops in my mind: Why are most of them styled this way? Is there a maintenance benefit? Health benefit? Or does it just look more organized? I mean, in Japan they are very good at catching tiny details and improving them. It cannot be not just at random that this is the main style you see, right?

At the end of the day...I'm going to style a tree in the direction that I feel is the best for the trunk and my taste. There are to many who do naturalistic and they thrive. To have me lose sleep over styling...but, if I Seem Adair's tree...naturalistic would of flown out the window....I would have bought it too.

 

[Adair M]

At the end of the day...I'm going to style a tree in the direction that I feel is the best for the trunk and my taste. There are to many who do naturalistic and they thrive. To have me lose sleep over styling...but, if I Seem Adair's tree...naturalistic would of flown out the window....I would have bought it too.

Yes, bonsai is an “art”, using trees (and other woody plants) as the canvass.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Honestly...I can see this topic posted by a new person in the hobby. But for one long into it...to create this post. I think we have fallen into winter boredom.

cat chasing tail gif at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You are absolutely right. I do that too. I am trying to get my head around the styling used though, and also why this way, if this is not their natural habit.

Okay, so why ask? If you are already familiar with the natural form or styles that trident maples take in nature, you are certainly free to try to reproduce that or those styles in your trees. Just do it. Walter Pall doesn't ask permission to do naturalistic styles, you don't need to ask permission either.

That said, Leo, we often train bonsai to be a style we humans like, regardless of the plant’s natural form.

Exhibit A: azalea. When have you ever seen an single trunk azalea growing in the ground in someone’s landscape? It’s a shrub. We humans have taken them and forced them into single trunk “trees”.

I know this, @leatherback seemed to be asking what is the natural style tridents take. I do believe in being creative, I am not "locked into" only styling trees in naturalistic styles. I do a little of everything. I have some trees heading toward "naturalistic" and I have stylized trees, that don't really resemble nature. And you are right, I do not want a "naturalistic" azalea, as the natural form is pretty shabby.

Trident maple, more so than other maples, is botanical silly putty, or botanical modeling clay. You can train them any way you want, they are so easy to shape, that looking at bonsai tridents for sale in the hobby, I can see one being confused as to what they would naturally look like left to their own devices. They can be anything you want.

 

[leatherback]

Honestly...I can see this topic posted by a new person in the hobby. But for one long into it...to create this post. I think we have fallen into winter boredom.

cat chasing tail gif at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Honestly, why is it such an affront to you when someone just wants to try and understand the why of certain choices? You could just stick out of the thread. But no, you have to come around and around?

 

[leatherback]

Okay, so why ask?

As said; Why is the styling used that is used? What are the considerations behind it?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Honestly, why is it such an affront to you when someone just wants to try and understand the why of certain choices? You could just stick out of the thread. But no, you have to come around and around?

So typical Jelle... you never disappoint. You have so much amazing knowledge to share...then you have a second side of you. I can just ignore you again...yeah, I think I will. Because life is to short...I understand that more today than ever.

 

[leatherback]

so why ask?

Because it is not always clear what you can find and what is normal. Look at the picture of the pine bonsai somewhere before in this thread, where the poster indicated that pines very rarely grow that way. And op pops a person saying that is how pines grow in their region. I myself see pines grow that way too where I live. So we do not hold the truth and internet is not always a great source of information, certainly not if you try to find examples of mature trees.

Trident maple, more so than other maples, is botanical silly putty, or botanical modeling clay. You can train them any way you want

I think you are actually making my point to the questions I am having.

- We see many (Most) tridents trains with very layered, horizontal to even downward branches. Yet in their natural state they do not typically grow like this.
As TM are so flexible in what styles they take.. What is the reason behind the most common way of styling? Is it just copying what is seen most, is it fashion? Or is there another reason maybe in maintenance, maybe in light or some aesthetics that make tridents trained the way they are.

It seems people take offense when people ask questions other than "is this good for bonsai" or "what would you do". I am not trying to be dense. I just would like to get deeper into the reasons behind styling trees as they are. I remember a great thread a few years ago where pages of discussions where filled on whether or not branches should for hills or valleys, based on whether branches grow out underneath the shaded part or from the top, and the lower part dies.

 

[leatherback]

That said, Leo, we often train bonsai to be a style we humans like, regardless of the plant’s natural form.

So would you say it is purely fasion / aesthetics that drive the typical design direction we see for tridents?

 

[leatherback]

So typical Jelle... you never disappoint. You have so much amazing knowledge to share...then you have a second side of you.

Please stick to trees. There is absolutely no need to get personal. If you do not like a question, feel free to keep scrolling, instead of going on a personality attack. It really does not look good on either of us and does nothing to improve discussions.

 

[Adair M]

So would you say it is purely fasion / aesthetics that drive the typical design direction we see for tridents?

To a certain extent, yes. Popularity of certain styles come and go. No one ever heard of “naturalistic bonsai” 25 years ago. Until Walter Pall went on a crusade to bring it into the limelight. 25 years from now, will that style be the mainstream? Who knows? Styles and tastes change over time.

 

[Adair M]

The popularity of styles is also a function of where you live, and what the local trees look like.

I remember I once had a lively discussion with someone in England. And we were arguing about oak tree growth habits. And he posted pictures of his local oak trees, and I posted pictures of my local oak trees, and well, his oaks looked different from my oaks! So we were both right! Lol!!!

 

[BobbyLane]

As branches compete for light you will obviously get weaker and stronger branches on deciduous trees, its not uncommon to see branches dip and weave as they search for light blocked out by more vigorous branches. but 9 times out of 10 as you go up into the tree the branches will ascend. anywhere you go in the world, the natural inherant growth habit is to ascend and reach out to the light. weeping deciduous trees are the exception.

we have oaks here too with horizontal branches, here is a turkey oak outside my balcony, the majority of the branches come off the trunk in an upward fashion, some dipping, some of the stronger ones have stayed upwards


what i see with a lot of these tridents and others is all branches going downward even in the apex, thats an aesthetic as most of us have agreed on.

 

[clem]

To a certain extent, yes. Popularity of certain styles come and go. No one ever heard of “naturalistic bonsai” 25 years ago. Until Walter Pall went on a crusade to bring it into the limelight. 25 years from now, will that style be the mainstream? Who knows? Styles and tastes change over time.

For me, it is John Naka who introduced the "natural looking" reflexion on trees, on his 2nd book. He took a lot of pics of real big trees and he drew the same trees in Bonsai pot with their natural looking (excluding big defaults) and the right pot : so it is very interesting to learn from him, both on the aesthetic reflexion + the best tree+pot association.

On the pic i posted before, of the JWP in the Sakufu-ten #2, you can also see that in Japan, there are also natural looking trees, a few decades ago.
In very old Kokufu-ten and Sakufu-ten exhibitions, you can see that the trees used to be more natural, because they were younger than the nowadays Bonsai, and the aesthétic rules weren't so well known. Kimura and other modern artists introduced the new aesthetic look/standard in the modern japanese Bonsai

 

[sorce]

The "style of the day" determines styling first, what you are viewing in these trees you are seeing is the "style of the day" from when they were started. When were they started?

Like we hear louder music as better, do we also see these hella ramified trees of old as better?

Can this be why we dismiss new styles, and/or Walter? A lack of Future Vision?

What happens to a style when a tree changes hands? Like we saw about that trident here, ok once it's on a path, it's hard to commit to a change. So these trees of old remain that way.

Some artists work with a tree, some against it.
Working with a tree is faster, so also better by default, except as limited by space and time and material.

Sorce