How many times can you repot in one month? BIG problem.. (I think)

[Mike Corazzi]

Reading this post and I believe I have the opposite problem.

Trees in pumice roots

Hello, As I prepare for spring repot and will be mostly using pumice and some argil balls, for soil I'm wondering if the roots will attach to the rather light soil to make a root all that holds the soil at time of next repot. My main concern is about some conifers (pine, juniper and podocarpus)...

www.bonsainut.com

Hope not but not optimistic.
I have just finished repotting everything. And it's staying too WET!
No matter how sparingly I water, it will not dry through the day. The trees "seem" okay, BUT...this is the time of year to look all peppy anyhow.
This is the first time I've used this new..pumice.. for the drainage layer ...also in the mix I usually use... and so much of it thinking it would drain WELL.
Well, some DO appear to drain well and fast.

I just tried squeezing this new pumice with pliers. It crushes. With not all that much force.
That seems more to be a characteristic of akadama and shouldn't be for pumice. (I think)
NOW.... to the dilemma.
Should these trees be RE-repotted? I think so. I'm not happy at all with how they look by end of day as far as looking too wet. Maybe they aren't but they sure look like it.
And.... how to go about it if I have to? Try to dig around the edges and refill with the old standby of lava and aka? Take a hose and try to squirt the present soil out?
What?

The trees are ....of course .... all wired in tight. Yay! Don't know if I should try to undo the wire and re-do.

????

Pretty pissed at this time. I don't think leaving them alone is a good thing.

 

[Adair M]

Mike, can you crush the pumice with just your fingers? If not, leave it alone.

pumice is microscopically hollow. That is, there are tiny air pockets in the interior of each particle. Which is why it’s light weight. It’s essentially glass with tiny air pockets. It usually has so much air in it that it will float!

You don’t have to have your soil actually be “dry” at the end of the day. What you don’t want is standing water, or extremely slow draining water.

Leave them alone.

But, I gotta ask: why straight pumice? You were using an APL mix? And you changed to straight pumice? Why?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Mike, can you crush the pumice with just your fingers? If not, leave it alone.

pumice is microscopically hollow. That is, there are tiny air pockets in the interior of each particle. Which is why it’s light weight. It’s essentially glass with tiny air pockets. It usually has so much air in it that it will float!

You don’t have to have your soil actually be “dry” at the end of the day. What you don’t want is standing water, or extremely slow draining water.

Leave them alone.

But, I gotta ask: why straight pumice? You were using an APL mix? And you changed to straight pumice? Why?

I may have misstated. I got a NEW source of good LOOKING pumice.
I added it to my aka mix ....instead... of lava. Looked great going in and drained well on first waterings.
It's just that it stays dark and wettish looking at end of day whereas my lava/aka usually looked dry and next day WAS dry. (ISH)


So the trees are not in straight pumice. They're in pumice/aka with a ....smidge... of organic that I always use just for good measure.

I really HOPE I don't have to re-do as I just finished all but one tree.

 

[Colorado]

Are you surprised that pumice/akadama retains more moisture than lava/akadama?

Sounds like the pumice is doing exactly what it is intended to do as a soil component.

 

[Vin]

Maybe I'm underthinking this. Use a little less water and only water when needed. You're further up North so once summer hits you'll be watering daily.

 

[Dav4]

Recently re-potted trees aren't going to be pulling much water out of the soil anyway. Honestly, I expect the soil to stay wet on re-potted trees until they've recovered and really start to grow. This is all based on the premise that the trees in question aren't horribly over-potted.

 

[BuckeyeOne]

Mike, I know you are in CA, but it is still late winter.
What are your daytime highs? Are the plants in full sun?
It sounds like the pumice is doing its job of retaining moisture. The pumice I use is fairly hard, but will crush when damp.
If you haven't used pumice before, there is a little learning curve to find the right watering schedule. I can go for a few days between waterings if overcast and cool.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Are you surprised that pumice/akadama retains more moisture than lava/akadama?

Sounds like the pumice is doing exactly what it is intended to do as a soil component.

Only slightly surprised. I "theorized" that pumice would be super duper as it DOES hold some water and we get hellishly hot summers hereabouts..
I did NOT expect such a dramatic difference though.

I ...have.... been watering like a camel.

Only goldfish water and drizzling it in around the edges and ONLY when it "appears" it might be thirsty.

I can see where more transpiration later in the season could rectify this dilemma. I just hope it does.
Just THINKING of re-doing the whole shebang brings on chest pains.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Mike, I know you are in CA, but it is still late winter.
What are your daytime highs? Are the plants in full sun?
It sounds like the pumice is doing its job of retaining moisture. The pumice I use is fairly hard, but will crush when damp.
If you haven't used pumice before, there is a little learning curve to find the right watering schedule. I can go for a few days between waterings if overcast and cool.

THAT is highly encouraging. It's just counter intuitive to ME to not "buy a round for the house" on a daily basis.




Oh. Highs in upper 60s.... lows in upper 30s to lower 40s.

 

[BuckeyeOne]

Sounds like the chest pains should be subsiding by now!!
It looks like you should be good to go. Even during the summers here, with the use of pumice, I usually won't get to two a day waterings until we get sustained 80-85.
Wish I was done repotting. I won't be able to touch mine for at least 45 days!!

 

[hemmy]

I "theorized" that pumice would be super duper as it DOES hold some water and we get hellishly hot summers hereabouts..
I did NOT expect such a dramatic difference though.

I ...have.... been watering like a camel.

Ok, you had me out crushing pumice with pliers this morning! For reference, in SoCal:

I use Uni-Gro pumice which is good quality and should be available in Northern Cali. You cannot crush it with your fingers, but you can fracture some at max finger pressure with some sliding. But you can definitely crush it in a pliers with just a few pounds of pressure. Scoria can also be plier crushed but takes max plier pressure. I’ve never seen my pumice physically broken down in mix even after ~8yrs.

I don’t use organics when I use akadama, it already holds moisture and has good CEC.

What types of trees are you talking about? My deciduous elm bonsai repots in akadama are in process of leafing out but have only been watered once every several days to a week. They aren’t really transpiring yet. Prebonsai deciduous repots in pumice/bark will take over a week to need water as they are waking up. My day temps are similar to you but with slightly warmer nights.

Pines in APL mix are only getting water every several days as they are just waking up with candle elongation.

As long as you mix was screened and not holding fines, I wouldn’t worry about slow water usage. Just sleep in longer and don’t water!

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Yep. Can't crush with fingers at all. Takes some effort with pliers. It just surprised me how it broke into almost powder.

 

[Rabe]

Newly repotted trees do not use a lot of water. They need some time to adjust and then they will pump up the water to their upper parts. I think they will do great when they are settled.

 

[leatherback]

as long as you do nto have water standing in the pots and it drains well, be happy tha the substrate stays moist long. Great!

 

[Japonicus]

In SUMMER I fret over trees that are not taking up water like other ones are,
but, I experienced your wet soil dilemma when I started using NAPA 8822 DE mixed in.
I guess it has a learning curve to it, but given the particle size, I'm rethinking its use in my mix.
I wouldn't repot either.

 

[Paradox]

Oh. Highs in upper 60s.... lows in upper 30s to lower 40s.

When I first put my trees out in the spring under similar temperatures, I almost never have to water them every day.
Its cooler, there is less evaporation and the trees arent using a lot of water yet because the temperatures are not that hot and they may not yet be growing fast.
I set the sprinklers to every other day (if it doesnt rain on its own) and monitor them at the end of the day to see how the soil is.
When the temperatures go up and the soil starts getting dry at the end of the day, I know I need to set it for every day watering

 

[sorce]

..pumice.. for the drainage layer ...also in the mix

To me, it sounds more like you may have successfully changed the height of your waters perch.

What is the depth of these?

Well, some DO appear to drain well and fast

For some reason the water table didn't change in these.

It's the changed water table you're witnessing I reckon, not a more retentive mix.

Sorce

 

[Mike Corazzi]

To me, it sounds more like you may have successfully changed the height of your waters perch.

What is the depth of these?


For some reason the water table didn't change in these.

It's the changed water table you're witnessing I reckon, not a more retentive mix.

Sorce

So...they need pumps?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you sifted your media - your pumice, akadama mix, and got rid of the fines. The air voids will allow you to keep the media wet and still have enough air at the roots to prevent rots. This is perfect.

A mix that has been sifted to remove fines can be watered several times a day and will not rot the roots.

Don't worry about the mix staying too wet. If you sifted, you are good.

iF you added fines, or did not sift your media, so you have a lot of fines - then you really can create problems.
A dense mix will not breathe.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

If you sifted your media - your pumice, akadama mix, and got rid of the fines. The air voids will allow you to keep the media wet and still have enough air at the roots to prevent rots. This is perfect.

A mix that has been sifted to remove fines can be watered several times a day and will not rot the roots.

Don't worry about the mix staying too wet. If you sifted, you are good.

iF you added fines, or did not sift your media, so you have a lot of fines - then you really can create problems.
A dense mix will not breathe.

I sifted. Think I did all the right things. But I did mix in some smaller (not fine) pumice with the akadama.
Guess I have to wait and see. It's hard to understand that a substrate that looks so homogeneous can let water through easily.
It does. So far.

How hard is it to swap bonsai for Hummels?