How long to keep heavy wire with raffia on a semicascade?

[Ozz80]

I know that leyland cypresses are not the best choice to be a bonsai material. However, I decided to use a cheap tree for practicing heavy wiring with raffia. So I bended the 2 cm thick side trunk of a cheap leylandii into a semicascade using 2 wires with thickness of 4.5 mm over raffia. I also used several guide wires attached to the nursery pot. (I made a mistake at a point where the latter wire crossed over the first one. I also slightly cracked it at some point, but it served it's training purpose, lessons learned.)

How long do you suggest me to keep the wires on the tree? Can I keep them until next spring?

Note: I know that the tree was ugly and looks uglier now . In any case, due to the cost,it would not hurt much if it dies or I end up with severe wire scars or I can't handle the chaotic and coarse branch structure. But I still want to give it a chance, at least for using as a practice material.

 

[shohin_branches]

Some of my conifers I leave wire on for two years. It depends on how much you fertilize and how fast it grows. I let wire bite in a little on conifers before removing but monitor. If wire is biting in a lot a year and a half from now feel empowered to cut it off and reapply it if needed.

One suggestion though is to use thicker wire and more space between your coils then wrap the coils laying next to each other like two nested half helix instead of a double helix. Here is an example of how I wired a hard bend I did on a spruce.


Don't forget to wire your primary branches too. They'll only become less flexible as they age.

One thing to also consider with a cascade is tipping the tree orientation to get the lean you want. I like to use wood wedges so I can hold the pot correctly on the bench and I know what I'm aiming for next time I repot.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I wet my raffia along with watering the pot. It tends to degrade faster than the wire bites in, most of the times.
With a box cutter you should be able to cut the strands in between the wire.

Raffia serves a function for about a week, after that the wood is usually no longer tensed up.

 

[Ozz80]

Some of my conifers I leave wire on for two years. It depends on how much you fertilize and how fast it grows. I let wire bite in a little on conifers before removing but monitor. If wire is biting in a lot a year and a half from now feel empowered to cut it off and reapply it if needed.

One suggestion though is to use thicker wire and more space between your coils then wrap the coils laying next to each other like two nested half helix instead of a double helix. Here is an example of how I wired a hard bend I did on a spruce.
View attachment 596285

Don't forget to wire your primary branches too. They'll only become less flexible as they age.

One thing to also consider with a cascade is tipping the tree orientation to get the lean you want. I like to use wood wedges so I can hold the pot correctly on the bench and I know what I'm aiming for next time I repot.

Thanks for your reply. I understand from your answer that, it is safe to keep them until the next spring, whereas the duration can be extended to 2 years. I'll be on the cautious side, considering that l am inexperienced in wiring and I might have done mistakes. Besides, leyland cypress is a fast growing species and that may be a reason why it is not regarded as a suitable tree for bonsai. So wire bite can be quicker than expected.

As for the orientation, I guess the tree looks ugly on every angle due to the straight trunk line and it is a bit too thick to be bendable. Maybe after two years, my next practice on this tree will be bending with splitting the trunk . Or maybe I'll chop it completely

Meanwhile I will wire primary branches as soon as possible, as you suggested.

 

[leatherback]

See whether the lower section of the trunk can be bend. Normally you should be able to bend it with double 5mm alu. The closer you can get the main bend near the soilline, the more convincing it will look.

 

[Ozz80]

See whether the lower section of the trunk can be bend. Normally you should be able to bend it with double 5mm alu. The closer you can get the main bend near the soilline, the more convincing it will look.

Thanks for the advice! I'll give it a try.

 

[Ozz80]

I wet my raffia along with watering the pot. It tends to degrade faster than the wire bites in, most of the times.
With a box cutter you should be able to cut the strands in between the wire.

Raffia serves a function for about a week, after that the wood is usually no longer tensed up.

I have a sprinkler system in the yard, so it will get wet unintentionally, I will remove it after a week as you suggested. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks for your reply. I understand from your answer that, it is safe to keep them until the next spring, whereas the duration can be extended to 2 years. I'll be on the cautious side, considering that l am inexperienced in wiring and I might have done mistakes. Besides, leyland cypress is a fast growing species and that may be a reason why it is not regarded as a suitable tree for bonsai. So wire bite can be quicker than expected.

Definitely keep a close watch. Wire marks and how long to set a branch depends on growth. Faster growth means it sets sooner. Slower growth means longer to the branch staying in place.
Growth, and therefore time to set in place, will depend on how well you care for the tree because that dictates how well it will grow. It also depends on your location as some areas have longer/better growing seasons.
Time to set in place also varies with the size and strength of the branch being bent. Young, green shoots can set in just a few weeks. Older, thicker branches will take longer.

Always remove wire before it marks the bark, because wire marks take years to grow out. If the branch starts to move back to the old position, then rewire with new wire and bend back to position. Eventually it will stay.
Fortunately, raffia wrap protects the bark from wire marks but it can leave raffia marks as the trunk thickens. Check thickening both above and below the wrap. If you see any bulges remove both wire and wrap ASAP.

I understand the purpose is to try techniques. Just need to say that raffia wrap is only necessary when bending very brittle wood or when making tight bends. I'm pretty confident that bend could have easily been made without raffia wrap protection.

 

[Ozz80]

I understand the purpose is to try techniques. Just need to say that raffia wrap is only necessary when bending very brittle wood or when making tight bends. I'm pretty confident that bend could have easily been made without raffia wrap protection.

Thanks for the clarification. After seeing videos that thick branches are covered with raffia for bending, I assumed that it was the norm for every species.

Possibly due to my poor wiring (maybe not wrapping the coils next to each other as @shohin_branches suggested), guy wires are holding the bend at the moment mostly, rather than bonsai wires.

 

[Ozz80]

The base of the trunk has a thickness of 7 cm's (which makes 2.75 inches). Can I go without raffia for the main trunk bend which @leatherback suggested?

 

[leatherback]

Heavy bends are always tricky, and require raffia to ensure the fibres to not break through the bark. I think what was suggested is that a bend like the one you have made is not an extreme bend. Maybe check the video below for pushing the bend down more.

Note, this sort of bending is ideally NOT done in the middle of the growing season, as bark-slipping becomes a risk if you are not confident in wiring & bending.

 

[Ozz80]

Heavy bends are always tricky, and require raffia to ensure the fibres to not break through the bark. I think what was suggested is that a bend like the one you have made is not an extreme bend. Maybe check the video below for pushing the bend down more.

Note, this sort of bending is ideally NOT done in the middle of the growing season, as bark-slipping becomes a risk if you are not confident in wiring & bending.

Thanks for the reply. I learned a lot from your videos and still learning. They are a great resource for beginners. (and maybe even for experts)

I am sending the initial photo of the tree. I might have already done too much work on this. I I am not going to touch it anymore until next spring. Better be cautious, especially if these are your first steps.

 

[Ruddigger]

The reason your wire isnt holding is because it’s too small, and because the angle of the wire is too shallow. It’s basically cutting across the branch at almost 90°, it should be a nice consistent 45°.