Hoping someone w/ Daconil(imidacloprid) and/or Bayer's 3-in-1 pesticides could be kind enough to give me the instructions...

[SU2]

I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing

@SU2 Daconil is an anti-fungal. Something else I was wondering about is the "worms" - sounds more like larvae of some type to me...

Grimmy

What makes it sound more lie larvae to you? Lately I've been treating it mostly by-hand, am finding a couple more trees each day that have anywhere from 1-4 shoots affected, typically near the tips although any spots where leafs are tight/dense is susceptible....will always approach it in a way as to catch the damn caterpillar (3-10mm, typically long ~5mm), because once their area is disturbed they start trying to move and their locomotion makes them susceptible to just fall onto the substrate surface where they'd just climb back up...I kill them, thoroughly inspect all leaves near them, remove any leaves that were too-affected (unsure how small the larvae can be), and that usually saves the area ie I've got many tips that were affected a week, two weeks, etc ago and are now growing again, still having the scars of the worms but no further injury.

Then there's the ones that burrow inside the leaf and leave a waxy-filmed trail wherever they go, they're probably 20% of my worm problem, I just clip the leaves mid-petiole (as always) where affected and get those leaves bagged / into the trash away from the garden ;D

 

[SU2]

[update- got mah label Let the pest-genocide begin!]
[[edit- well, got enough of what I need to apply the stuff Still unsure what thoughts are on application ratios ie do you try for foliage predominantly (my understanding is 'yes') or for everything equally, or something in-between?]]

 

[Shima]

One part Bayer 3 in 1
Two parts daconil
Mix with 4 shots vodka
Serve chilled

Shaken, not stirred.

 

[SU2]

Just for posterity & other people who may stumble here through google, here's the link to a .png of the label itself (bayer 3-in-1 pest/disease/insect control)

https://www.domyown.com/msds/original_3-in-1-Insect-Disease-Mite-Control-Con.pdf

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I don't like the way you and a lot of bonsaiists think about poison. Not a single bit.
If there's mushrooms growing out of the soil, it means that there is either a healthy system, or that your trees were heavily over watered. Daconyl isn't going to solve any of that. Mushrooms form at the end of the life cycle of a fungus, not at the start.

SU2, I am concerned about your health and well being. Please, make sure that you know what you're doing is safe. If you're not sure, or only half sure, don't do it. Daconil is banned here for some reason, cancer maybe?

I have an epileptic pet as the result of sticking to a label 'safe for humans and animals' and not doing research I should have. The only pet I've had for the past 10 years, should've been able to live up to 40, but it's in steady decline. Imagine doing that to yourself..
I cant stress this enough! A friend of mine became sterile because his dad didn't like reading labels of Bayer products (Masaii to be precise). Imagine that, a 21 year old kid, ready to get married, learning that his family name ends then and there. His fiancee left him. If he ever gets kids, they will have reproductive issues as well.

I know the US is kind of a wild west on these things, but please people, use your brain. Otherwise just shoot me a PM for help or whatever. I don't want other people to have the same faith as my grandfather, who died from the toxins stored in his fat tissue.

Come to think of it, I know way too many of these cases to shut up about it. Sorry for being an ass, but that might save a life this time. Maybe not ours, maybe not yours, but maybe one of your children or even their offsping.

 

[hemmy]

What makes it sound more lie larvae to you?

I agree with Grim. If the “worms” are on the leaves, they are likely larvae is a flying insect. Just like more traditional looking caterpillars. Also look up Bt pesticides, which use a bacterial approach to kills caterpillars and larval worms. Maybe post some pics of your pests for better advice. Also when you have chemical questions, just call the 1-800 phone number on the bottle or for the company. They can usually answer most questions or send you copies of labels/instructions.

AND, since this is the internet and we are all experts, I’ll also add my 2 cents on the proper use of chemicals.

Daconil is a great antifungal product, but don’t overuse it, alternate with another fungicides that uses different modes of action for better effectiveness and to avoid resistance.

As stated, the Bayer 3in1 has imidacloprid. It, along with Malathion and Sevin are indiscriminate killers, which can wipe out the natural predators that were keeping spider mites in check. Some pesticides also act as viagra for spider mites. Mites are not insects. Look up the specific way to break their lifecycle and foster natural predators.

Also look up beneficial insects (and not ladybugs at the checkout of your garden store). Pest specific and general predators from commercial breeders. They have come down a lot in price and can very effective if you can provide them the right conditions to reproduce (e.g., less effective on a 20 story apartment balcony than a backyard with garden spaces).

Lastly, don’t throw those free chemicals out, just use them correctly! We live in America, exercise your god-given right to nuke the pest of your choice! If you don’t have at least one hamster with seizures, you aren’t trying hard enough! Also bonus tip, Malathion makes great perfume!

 

[GrimLore]

What makes it sound more lie larvae to you?

Although there "could" be a worm that eats and lives foliage I am not aware of any that do that, serious... My guess is larvae because I am pretty certain you could ID a caterpillar, both eat foliage.

Malathion makes great perfume!

I spit some beer out reading that! LMAO! I use it most often when I cannot easily ID a pest - it rocks!

Grimmy

 

[SU2]

I appreciate you concerns (sincerely, fear that could come across as placating) so want to address these individually:

I don't like the way you and a lot of bonsaiists think about poison. Not a single bit.
If there's mushrooms growing out of the soil, it means that there is either a healthy system, or that your trees were heavily over watered. Daconyl isn't going to solve any of that. Mushrooms form at the end of the life cycle of a fungus, not at the start.

I think you have a very, very different view of how I'm approaching this - I've had daconil and the bayer product for a good half-year before I was comfortable enough to do my first application, and that's in the case of someone who is versed in using industrial herbicides & pesticides. And re mushrooms, I know they're a sign of a healthy fungus (and am aware I want a good network of hyphae/mycellium to extend my roots' range/surface-area), I really brought them up in the first place just to describe the problem of too-wet a soil, but no I'm not trying to get rid of *that* fungus (though it may suffer somewhat in some of the systemic-pesticide usage, am unsure - I was worried that peroxide soil-drenches would destroy them but, funnily enough, turns out that's unfounded ;D )

SU2, I am concerned about your health and well being. Please, make sure that you know what you're doing is safe. If you're not sure, or only half sure, don't do it. Daconil is banned here for some reason, cancer maybe?

I have an epileptic pet as the result of sticking to a label 'safe for humans and animals' and not doing research I should have. The only pet I've had for the past 10 years, should've been able to live up to 40, but it's in steady decline. Imagine doing that to yourself..
I cant stress this enough! A friend of mine became sterile because his dad didn't like reading labels of Bayer products (Masaii to be precise). Imagine that, a 21 year old kid, ready to get married, learning that his family name ends then and there. His fiancee left him. If he ever gets kids, they will have reproductive issues as well.

I know the US is kind of a wild west on these things, but please people, use your brain. Otherwise just shoot me a PM for help or whatever. I don't want other people to have the same faith as my grandfather, who died from the toxins stored in his fat tissue.

Come to think of it, I know way too many of these cases to shut up about it. Sorry for being an ass, but that might save a life this time. Maybe not ours, maybe not yours, but maybe one of your children or even their offsping.

Fully worthwhile concerns but again I assure you I handle & use these chemicals properly, I actually harbor irrational worries about using them, so err way on the side of safety! You are right in that it's a wild-west, that's why there was such a delay from acquiring to using these products, wanted to be sure I knew precisely what's what!

Thanks again for the concern it is appreciated

 

[SU2]

Although there "could" be a worm that eats and lives foliage I am not aware of any that do that, serious... My guess is larvae because I am pretty certain you could ID a caterpillar, both eat foliage.

Grimmy

I have caterpillars also :/ Mostly just doing physical removal at this point as I've got a good amount of developed spider-webs that I'd really rather not lose, so trying to keep it physical-removal as primary and chemicals 'as emergency'/last-chance stuff!

 

[SU2]

I agree with Grim. If the “worms” are on the leaves, they are likely larvae is a flying insect. Just like more traditional looking caterpillars. Also look up Bt pesticides, which use a bacterial approach to kills caterpillars and larval worms. Maybe post some pics of your pests for better advice. Also when you have chemical questions, just call the 1-800 phone number on the bottle or for the company. They can usually answer most questions or send you copies of labels/instructions.

AND, since this is the internet and we are all experts, I’ll also add my 2 cents on the proper use of chemicals.

Daconil is a great antifungal product, but don’t overuse it, alternate with another fungicides that uses different modes of action for better effectiveness and to avoid resistance.

As stated, the Bayer 3in1 has imidacloprid. It, along with Malathion and Sevin are indiscriminate killers, which can wipe out the natural predators that were keeping spider mites in check. Some pesticides also act as viagra for spider mites. Mites are not insects. Look up the specific way to break their lifecycle and foster natural predators.

Also look up beneficial insects (and not ladybugs at the checkout of your garden store). Pest specific and general predators from commercial breeders. They have come down a lot in price and can very effective if you can provide them the right conditions to reproduce (e.g., less effective on a 20 story apartment balcony than a backyard with garden spaces).

Lastly, don’t throw those free chemicals out, just use them correctly! We live in America, exercise your god-given right to nuke the pest of your choice! If you don’t have at least one hamster with seizures, you aren’t trying hard enough! Also bonus tip, Malathion makes great perfume!

Wait are you saying that the caterpillars are larvae of flying insects? Interesting...they match the green worms that find two leaves to squeeze-together to produce offspring and, un-caught, seem to just produce more worms not a flying bug...could always be both I guess, have noticed at least 3 different types of worms :/

BT pesticides, being a bacteria, seem like they should be a go-to before even using systemics, just want to make sure I'm understanding that correctly? Maybe it'd be best for me to get some BT and only use the other stuff if that fails?

 

[hemmy]

Wait are you saying that the caterpillars are larvae of flying insects?

Yes, most likely of some sort of moth or sawfly. Do you have pics?

I would try Bt or Spinosad (Monterey Garden Spray or Captain Jacks Dead Bug Brew) or beneficial predators for the larvae before spraying the Bayer 3–1. With systemics, I prefer soil application/root uptake to limit killing beneficial predators. Saving those nuclear spraying options as a last resort.

 

[Timbo]

I Just had the Sawfly Larvae show up on my Scotch pine in one day, they ate most of the old needles and are working on the new growth. Sigh, it's not the strongest tree either as i just dug it up a few years ago.
Time to get picking!...anyone want cooked worms?