Help with rough identification of an Azalea

[Rivka]

While clearly the exact name or cultivator will never be known on this old landscape plant, I would love to know all I can as I work on it. I'm also fascinated to know if there is any way to get a rough idea of age?

I believe this is an "evergreen" variety and clearly the leaves are naturally very small, even when the plant was left quite large. The hedge was easily 4 ft tall It was pulled by me from a neighbors yard last month. The pictures show the sheared hedge form it was in, albeit unkempt, before I trunk chopped it.
Flowers are small and fairly true red, it was about to bloom in April/Early May. I actually have two blossoms left intact just so I can see the bloom once before it goes out in the yard to back bud for a year, the picture of the bud in my hand for size reference was taken today April 27th, not sure if it has the strength to bloom after the massive repotting I put it through, but if it does I will update this thread with a picture.
Leaves are tiny, they have the hairs on them. It had been planted in fairly strong sun up against a west-facing brick wall of a house, so whatever it is, it's a tough old lady. The last picture is close up on the backside of a semi-dry leaf

Thanks, Rivka

 

[Forsoothe!]

If it's really a true red color, maybe 'Hershey Red'.

 

[Shibui]

Smaller flowers are generally from the Kurume group of azaleas but there's still quite a few red flowered varieties even in that one group.

 

[Rivka]

Smaller flowers are generally from the Kurume group of azaleas but there's still quite a few red flowered varieties even in that one group.

yeah, I'm not expecting to narrow it down to what variety or cultivator it is, this bush was likely 40 years old, and frankly I anything would be a guess. I was thinking just IDing the subseries and group would be great frankly.

 

[Rivka]

I wonder if the info that this was planted as a general lanscaping plant, on the west coast of the US in the 60's or 70's help at all?

 

[Rivka]

Just took apart a few flower buds that were on a branch I had removed, confirmed that the flowers are nice simple "single" type, 5 petals, 5 stamens wonderfully unfussy.
oh and the are all 3 of these flowers in a cluster at the end of a stem that I can see

 

[Rivka]

If it's really a true red color, maybe 'Hershey Red'.

This one is ruled out, mine is a single solid red bloom, small but 3 to a head

 

[just.wing.it]

Over 10,000 varieties to page through....seeing the open flower is the only real hope to ID.

 

[Rivka]

Over 10,000 varieties to page through....seeing the open flower is the only real hope to ID.

clearly a flower will help a lot, I hope I get a bloom this year. but again, I'm not looking for anything as specific as a variety or cultivator, i think that is a fool's errand, I'm looking for a more general sub group info

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

The Rhododendron Society maintains lists of gardens that feature Rhododendrons (all azalea are RHododendrons, so azalea are included) in Seattle there is the Rhododendron Species Garden, I believe it is next to the Pacific Rim Bonsai Collection. So if you are in the Seattle area, this is a destination to hit.

Go to various gardens while your tree is in bloom. See if they have something similar, open at the same time as yours. THat would become the likely candidate.

https://www.rhododendron.org/gardens.htm

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If it settles into flowering first, then a flush of growth, it is probably a Kurume type azalea. It looks Kurume to me, but I don't know that much about azalea.

Satsuki types tend to bloom later, May & June, and have a flush of vegetative growth, then a pause, they then bloom, then they have a second flush of vegetative growth.

Kurume wake up in spring, leaves return to green color, then they go ahead and bloom, usually April or usually earlier than Satsuki, then they have a flush of new growth.

The growth pattern is a good way to separate the two types. But unfortunately there are Kurume-Satsuki hybrids, which behave intermediate between their parents.

So doubtful you will get to a specific cultivar. But who knows. You might see a properly labeled dead ringer for your tree in one of the public gardens around the Pacific Northwest.

 

[Rivka]

What is the searchable best azalea database? I would love to look at something like that. I have looked through the one on the www.azaleas.org which is good but seems like it is geared towards a certain type.

Leo, the info on the timing of growth is very cool! thank you. if all this gets me close, I'm good with that,
if I learned anything from you many years around orchids, is that I have no delusions of naming a noid.

 

[Rivka]

As for great gardens to visit, I got to grow up amid one, it was amazing and beloved by our city. I lived next to Hendricks Park in Eugene. An 80acre hilltop forest park that houses a world-renowned rhododendron garden. spring walks in that park were an annual ritual. its actually interesting, I have never really liked "landscaped" azaleas in large part because to me these plants are supposed to be massive free-form tree-sized mounds flowing from one to the next. Hedging them always seem to trash them, so to have one in a pot is a big shift for me!

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi,
Just a small correction to your words used. Not trying to nit-pick.
Cultivator = an implement to dig soil, spade or tractor driven cultivated.

Cultivar (should be used in above posts) =
CULTivated VARiety.
Charles

 

[Rivka]

thank you, and this kind of nitpicking I'll talk all day long,
that's how we get the grey bits fulled up with the smart stuff.

when I think about it, I know the common word mix up and misspelling, thank you for the reminder and the mnemonic.

 

[Harunobu]

Bonsai people call these 'kurume' azaleas. This is definitely a hybrid that's strongly leaning to R.kiusianum but different from the species itself very likely because of R.kaempferi mixed in. There are many many many red and reddish kurume-type azaleas. It is strongly R.kiusianum-based because of the round and small leaves.

The best searchable database online is http://www.hirsutum.info/, but it hasn't been working for months and you couldn't search by flower color, if that's what you wanted. Otherwise, the American azalea society pbase page has a nice collection pictures.

If you want to ID it, often it can be helpful to find out what similar variaties local nurseries are actually growing. Now, this seems like an old plant, so that may have changed over time. But still as you are in the US, it is less likely to be a European cultivar (though not impossible) than an American or Japanese.

Take a new picture once the flowers open. But I would almost say it is not 'Hino Crimson' because it isn't Kaempferi-like enough. But at this point that would be my best guess, mostly based on it being an old and very common cultivar. But the picture you have taken were taken at a really bad time. In winter, all these cultivars look almost identical becauase they have little leaves and no flowers. Show a picture with full flowers plus new growth.

 

[penumbra]

It may be Hino Crimson based upon the estimated age of it. Was very popular in the 60's, 70's, 80's and is still used.

 

[Rivka]

Bonsai people call these 'kurume' azaleas. This is definitely a hybrid that's strongly leaning to R.kiusianum but different from the species itself very likely because of R.kaempferi mixed in. There are many many many red and reddish kurume-type azaleas. It is strongly R.kiusianum-based because of the round and small leaves.

The best searchable database online is http://www.hirsutum.info/, but it hasn't been working for months and you couldn't search by flower color, if that's what you wanted. Otherwise, the American azalea society pbase page has a nice collection pictures.

yeah, I had gone over the society database a few times and over and over I find its best matches a big handful of Glenn Dale Azaleas, the timeline would match up for that as well. time will tell, i'm going to go tour some of the gardens around here that have named plants and see what i see. thanks folks.

 

[Rivka]

Bonsai people call these 'kurume' azaleas. This is definitely a hybrid that's strongly leaning to R.kiusianum but different from the species itself very likely because of R.kaempferi mixed in. There are many many many red and reddish kurume-type azaleas. It is strongly R.kiusianum-based because of the round and small leaves.

thank you by the way for the really informative detailed answer, its gives me a lot to go back and read more about, just wat I love.