Help Me Understand Blue Atlas Cedar Branch Development and Ramification

[Deleted member 47471]

Is my (poorly executed) illustration accurate as to BAC branch selection, pruning, and foliar growth to grow and ramify a branch?


Is an existing primary branch required to have rosettes growing laterally (at least not directly on top/bottom) to qualify for keeping, pruning, ramifying, etc.? Can someone show the process of their BAC branch progression of pruning, making secondary, tertiary, etc.?

At some point (maybe on the 2nd or 3rd branching) there needs to be a grouping of rosettes/foliage to create a pad resting on top of the branch, right? Or are those simply laterals that are wired up?

 

[Shibui]

Cedar is another conifer that is very reluctant to bud on bare wood so it is necessary to have healthy rosettes or buds to grow a new lateral branch

Branch pad depth can be shoots growing upward or laterals wired up. Depends what you have available.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Perhaps the best answer is - one takes advantage of what is there on a BAC …as there isn’t a second choice due to its growth habit.

The rule I learned for BAC is plan - think again - then prune. There is no going back.

So get the tree healthy and robust. Once the tree starts pushing one gets plenty of choices. Then take advantage of all growth that goes in the desired direction. But do wire so each branchlet gets maximum sun.

In other words, BAC branches and sub branches etc are built by selective pruning, step by step. But the tree’s natural growth pattern will help. When the tree grows strong the rosettes burst forth atop one another in helter skelter fashion. Leave those going in promising directions. Trim off the ones that don’t. Here’s a few images from our BAC to help one visualize what this looks like.

Note multiple rosettes pushing in the same area. Also check out the backbuds beginning in the lower right of this image… this area is still new. As @Shibui mentioned, this doesn’t happen on older wood.


Note possible branching sites, offering multiple choices of direction.


Again… Leaving the rosettes packed together like this can case fungus depending on the local climate… also a good place for nasties to hide out.…. Choose wisely when pruning!


Also. One might google up a number of BAC images or take the opportunity to actually visit BAC bonsai or just in the ground. Get really close and try to trace the growth patterns on branches and sub branches. Again reliably helter skelter formation.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Perhaps the best answer is - one takes advantage of what is there on a BAC …as there isn’t a second choice due to its growth habit.

The rule I learned for BAC is plan - think again - then prune. There is no going back.

So get the tree healthy and robust. Once the tree starts pushing one gets plenty of choices. Then take advantage of all growth that goes in the desired direction. But do wire so each branchlet gets maximum sun.

In other words, BAC branches and sub branches etc are built by selective pruning, step by step. But the tree’s natural growth pattern will help. When the tree grows strong the rosettes burst forth atop one another in helter skelter fashion. Leave those going in promising directions. Trim off the ones that don’t. Here’s a few images from our BAC to help one visualize what this looks like.

Note multiple rosettes pushing in the same area. Also check out the backbuds beginning in the lower right of this image… this area is still new. As @Shibui mentioned, this doesn’t happen on older wood.
View attachment 525741

Note possible branching sites, offering multiple choices of direction.
View attachment 525740

Again… Leaving the rosettes packed together like this can case fungus depending on the local climate… also a good place for nasties to hide out.…. Choose wisely when pruning!
View attachment 525739

Also. One might google up a number of BAC images or take the opportunity to actually visit BAC bonsai or just in the ground. Get really close and try to trace the growth patterns on branches and sub branches. Again reliably helter skelter formation.

cheers
DSD sends

Very informative, thank you very much for the wealth of Knowledge (paying it forward)

So, when the rosettes finally develop into the proper terminal secondary/tertiary branching and pads of rosettes/foliage rest on top (to my liking), how does one keep those rosettes short and tight as pad foliage? I’ve heard no pinching, so this means pruning shears are used then?

Is it, from that point forward, an ongoing cycle of replacing old rosettes with new rosettes within in each pad? I apologize for asking many questions, but I’ve not found a book or article or literature to explain to me yet the series of physical and subsequent actions to perform to maintain a group of rosettes/pad?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Very informative, thank you very much for the wealth of Knowledge (paying it forward)

You are most welcome!

So, when the rosettes finally develop into the proper terminal secondary/tertiary branching and pads of rosettes/foliage rest on top (to my liking), how does one keep those rosettes short and tight as pad foliage? I’ve heard no pinching, so this means pruning shears are used then?

That is the easiest process. Once the pads are developed, the job is all about trimming back the new growth that grows out of the desired profile of each pad. edges, bottom and sides.

Is it, from that point forward, an ongoing cycle of replacing old rosettes with new rosettes within in each pad?

The old rosettes last pretty long, but yes, eventually they need to be replaced and new ones are used. Usually not an issue getting localized back budding... with proper pruning.

I apologize for asking many questions

No need, but thanks This forum is designed to give aid to those in need.

, but I’ve not found a book or article or literature to explain to me yet the series of physical and subsequent actions to perform to maintain a group of rosettes/pad?

Actually can’t recall a book reference offhand. I’m sure there’s one in the library here. First worked on BAC about four years ago. Then got OJT as a volunteer at PBM from the Curator. He showed us a few more techniques. My brother in law gave use an older BAC last fall we are working on bending into a full cascade and developing in to a decent specimen.

Here are a couple on links that may help you.

Bonsai Empire
Bonsai Mirai

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deleted member 47471]

I see what you’re saying about staying within the profile of the pad. Tweezers and plucking old/long needles away. This makes sense