Has anyone heard of Miyasaka Itoigawa?
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
The miyasaka itoigawa looks like the yatsubusa after pruning, which looks like general itoigawa.
I'm a big fan of junipers and I can spot the difference in most, if not all junipers I've seen in my life. But these subvarieties of itoigawa? Yeah, I don't see it. That doesn't mean there is no difference, it just means that I will not be looking for it because I have my own itoigawa. And Blaauw is readily available here, which in my opinion have the far superior color and puffyness (in three dimensions without pruning). They just grow very slowly.
I'm a big fan of junipers and I can spot the difference in most, if not all junipers I've seen in my life. But these subvarieties of itoigawa? Yeah, I don't see it. That doesn't mean there is no difference, it just means that I will not be looking for it because I have my own itoigawa. And Blaauw is readily available here, which in my opinion have the far superior color and puffyness (in three dimensions without pruning). They just grow very slowly.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
When something is said in Japanese, does it suddenly become mysterious and mythical?
"Yatsubusa" means dwarf. "Miyasaka" means hill. "Itoigawa" is a place name for an area in Niigata Prefecture. FWIW "Kishu" means "species"
Over time, there appears to be three primary cultivars/varieties of shimpaku junipers... generic shimpaku, kishu shimpaku, itoigawa shimpaku. Without provenance, and some clear indication of how the juniper is supposed to be significantly different from these three standards, I would hesitate to buy anything - or at least wouldn't pay a premium for it.
"Yatsubusa" means dwarf. "Miyasaka" means hill. "Itoigawa" is a place name for an area in Niigata Prefecture. FWIW "Kishu" means "species"
Over time, there appears to be three primary cultivars/varieties of shimpaku junipers... generic shimpaku, kishu shimpaku, itoigawa shimpaku. Without provenance, and some clear indication of how the juniper is supposed to be significantly different from these three standards, I would hesitate to buy anything - or at least wouldn't pay a premium for it.
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Mats Hagström
Yamadori
I agree that some where a name gets added often just a Japanese adjective and it becomes a different tree. Sometimes there is genetic uniqueness sometimes not.
When it comes to cork bark JBP I wounded how many genetic variations there really are? definitely a few, but perhaps not as many as there are different names for these trees.
I’ve seen lots of trees mislabeled at shows and for sale.
With a high demand for Itiogawa during the last few years some may have been lead to temptation.
Weather, growing styles fertilizer usage etc can make plants look different as well. Steve at Lonepine gardens in Sebastopol had these junipers. I could not differentiate from regular Itiogawa.
When it comes to cork bark JBP I wounded how many genetic variations there really are? definitely a few, but perhaps not as many as there are different names for these trees.
I’ve seen lots of trees mislabeled at shows and for sale.
With a high demand for Itiogawa during the last few years some may have been lead to temptation.
Weather, growing styles fertilizer usage etc can make plants look different as well. Steve at Lonepine gardens in Sebastopol had these junipers. I could not differentiate from regular Itiogawa.
Mike Westervelt
Chumono
Somewhere I read yatsubusa means "multi budded" ???
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I guess we would need a bi-lingual native to show up to confirm, but I have always heard it used in the plant world as "dwarf" with the context of "tight compact growth". There are several dwarf Japanese maple cultivars that use "yatsubusa" - the most popular of which is "Mikawa yatsubusa" literally "Mikawa dwarf" or "dwarf maple from Mikawa". Of course, that doesn't stop all kinds of weird translations from showing up on the Internet - including someone who says it means "three rivers" and another who thinks it has something to do with "eight buds" - though there is nothing in the literal translation of the word to suggest such a meaning.
FWIW there is a Pinus parviflora 'yatsubusa', as well as a Pinus thunbergiana 'yatsubusa', and a Pinus thungergiana 'Kyokko yatsubusa', and a Cryptomeria japonica 'Tenzan yatsubusa' so its use with conifers doesn't seem to suggest "eight buds" or "three rivers" LOL.
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It’s interesting you say it is readily available. I can’t dispute it one way or the other, and I’m only 18 months into the hobby, but I’ve never seen Blaauw anywhere other than googling for cultivars. I’ve never seen a post on Reddit bonsai, or a video, or at any of the very few shows I’ve attended.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
blaauw is a common cultivar here. Often used for beginnersworkshops because of robustness, easy foliage and.. availability.
That being said.. I now need 15 of them and they are more dificult to find in winter!
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't know where in the world you're at @Veebs but the US has procumbens with scale foliage that we don't have here. Blaauw is readily available here and in Belgium.
I remember David de Groot mentioning them in his book, but it wasn't a blaauw from what I can tell. I know they are out there somewhere as some US growers and bonsaiists seem to have them.
The thing is, I have been able to get almost every juniper out there to root. Except for blaauw. I find them very difficult to propagate.
I remember David de Groot mentioning them in his book, but it wasn't a blaauw from what I can tell. I know they are out there somewhere as some US growers and bonsaiists seem to have them.
The thing is, I have been able to get almost every juniper out there to root. Except for blaauw. I find them very difficult to propagate.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I had never seen a blaauw on the west coast. Interestingly, I found them here on the east coast - though only in a single nursery.
Can you share where? I’m in NC
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