Growth rate
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sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Maybe maybe not!
There is a lot to consider.
Sorce
There is a lot to consider.
Sorce
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
I think it’ll depend HEAVILY on the species.. some species are just BUILT to have multiple “leaders”.. these ones would, assumingely, grow at the same rate regardless of amount of new, leader “tips”..
Trees that are USED to just retaining utilizing ONE new point as “leader”.. but ACTUALLY have multiple, i’m thinking, is what’s “in question”..
Hmmm..
One would think THOSE “usually singular leader” specimens would ACTUALLY grow at a SLOWER rate...
Or faster.. but physics tell me, slower..
But I COULD be calculating backwards.
Trees that are USED to just retaining utilizing ONE new point as “leader”.. but ACTUALLY have multiple, i’m thinking, is what’s “in question”..
Hmmm..
One would think THOSE “usually singular leader” specimens would ACTUALLY grow at a SLOWER rate...
Or faster.. but physics tell me, slower..
But I COULD be calculating backwards.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
1 plant = 1 rootsystem
2 plants = 2 rootsystems
But you are on to the discussion of growing trunks: Let one leader grow tall, or get a very bushy tree, which is better. Conclusions are not definite yet in my opinion
2 plants = 2 rootsystems
But you are on to the discussion of growing trunks: Let one leader grow tall, or get a very bushy tree, which is better. Conclusions are not definite yet in my opinion
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
HorseloverFat
Squarepants with Conkers
And THIS the best “answer”
leatherback
The Treedeemer
It depends!And THIS the best “answer”
Alain BERTRAND
Mame
I don't think it works like that.
Basically, growth is a function of a how much solar energy a plant has received during the growth season minus how much energy it used to get that solar energy.
Herbaceous plants don't synthesize wood which needs more energy to get build : first they outgrow ligneous plants because they can make more foliage, but after a while they lack mechanic strength to put out more leaves.
Multitrunk plants (shrubs) have more trunk length for the same amount of wood (i.e. energy spent), and thus more foliage and more growth than a single trunk plant. But after a while, those leaves mutually shade themselves and photosynthesis becomes less efficient.
To come back to your question, I think that if the two apexes don't shade themselves you ought to have a better net growth than with one apex. But will this extragrowth localized in a part that will be used in you bonsai project ?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Look into weed growing, something about temperature and humidity that creates an optimal pressure on cells for growth.
Microbials and Fungi.
Much to consider.
Sorce
Microbials and Fungi.
Much to consider.
Sorce
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
There are actual mathemathical equations for this and the limiting factors are genetics and abiotic factors.
If the two tips are cut off and rooted, the growth output will double. Two times one is two.
If you keep them on the plant, two times one is more closer to a 1,3.
This effect is almost linear, 3*1=1.25 and so on.
Except at a certain point where effectiveness of photosynthesis exceeds the demands by growth. After mid summer usually, if no pruning has taken place. Bushes and shrubs are good at this.
Too many variables to say anything sensible about it. There are differences in growth rate in the sense of quantity and quality; for bonsai I prefer dense wood, short internodes, more mass than volume. High quality.
For timber and fireplace wood I prefer quantity, long internodes, more volume than mass. High quantity.
If the two tips are cut off and rooted, the growth output will double. Two times one is two.
If you keep them on the plant, two times one is more closer to a 1,3.
This effect is almost linear, 3*1=1.25 and so on.
Except at a certain point where effectiveness of photosynthesis exceeds the demands by growth. After mid summer usually, if no pruning has taken place. Bushes and shrubs are good at this.
Too many variables to say anything sensible about it. There are differences in growth rate in the sense of quantity and quality; for bonsai I prefer dense wood, short internodes, more mass than volume. High quality.
For timber and fireplace wood I prefer quantity, long internodes, more volume than mass. High quantity.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Stradivarius Bonsai.
That's for our new Cello playing friend.
Sorce
That's for our new Cello playing friend.
Sorce
LittleDingus
Omono
We're having upper 40F and rain today so I too my coastal redwoods outside to enjoy the weather. While they were outside, I took some pictures. Here's an inadvertent "experiment" showing a real world example or single tip vs multiple tip growth. Draw whatever conclusions from it that you wish...
I have several coastal redwoods that are all 3 years old...germinated in the same batch. After 1 season, something happened to one of them that the main trunk died back and the tree did what coastal redwoods do...it sprouted new leaders. About a dozen of them! I trimmed back some and continue to wipe off buds to keep the tree to only 6. I want to reduce to 5 but wanted the spare for now
And here they are after 2 seasons of additional growth.
There are both in the same size grow bag. They have spent their entire lives not much more than 3 feet away from one another. Same water, same light, same fertilizer routine, etc...
There was about 2" of trunk below where the multi-leader tree forks. It'll be interesting to see how that developed when I get a chance to repot that one. Right now, the soil line is almost up to the knob as you can see in the picture. That tree needs to go into a wider grow bag before it can go back outside in the spring anyway.
I have several coastal redwoods that are all 3 years old...germinated in the same batch. After 1 season, something happened to one of them that the main trunk died back and the tree did what coastal redwoods do...it sprouted new leaders. About a dozen of them! I trimmed back some and continue to wipe off buds to keep the tree to only 6. I want to reduce to 5 but wanted the spare for now
And here they are after 2 seasons of additional growth.
There are both in the same size grow bag. They have spent their entire lives not much more than 3 feet away from one another. Same water, same light, same fertilizer routine, etc...
There was about 2" of trunk below where the multi-leader tree forks. It'll be interesting to see how that developed when I get a chance to repot that one. Right now, the soil line is almost up to the knob as you can see in the picture. That tree needs to go into a wider grow bag before it can go back outside in the spring anyway.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
I guess...I'm more surprised they aren't dormant.We're having upper 40F and rain today so I too my coastal redwoods outside to enjoy the weather. While they were outside, I took some pictures. Here's an inadvertent "experiment" showing a real world example or single tip vs multiple tip growth. Draw whatever conclusions from it that you wish...
I have several coastal redwoods that are all 3 years old...germinated in the same batch. After 1 season, something happened to one of them that the main trunk died back and the tree did what coastal redwoods do...it sprouted new leaders. About a dozen of them! I trimmed back some and continue to wipe off buds to keep the tree to only 6. I want to reduce to 5 but wanted the spare for now
And here they are after 2 seasons of additional growth.
View attachment 351709 View attachment 351710 View attachment 351711
There are both in the same size grow bag. They have spent their entire lives not much more than 3 feet away from one another. Same water, same light, same fertilizer routine, etc...
There was about 2" of trunk below where the multi-leader tree forks. It'll be interesting to see how that developed when I get a chance to repot that one. Right now, the soil line is almost up to the knob as you can see in the picture. That tree needs to go into a wider grow bag before it can go back outside in the spring anyway.
LittleDingus
Omono
I guess...I'm more surprised they aren't dormant.
Coastal redwood...seqoia sempervirens...evergreens. Our local weather today is very much like their native habitate this time of year: 48F and raining here...currently 43F and raining on the Avenue of the Giants.
Of course the 48F here is an anomoly...they are normally in my garage under lights this time of year.
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
Interesting...I had done a quick search of coastal redwoods and the site called them deciduous. Must depend on the cultivar. Love when I learn something new.
SU2
Omono
Definitely not, the "1+1" here would become <2 automatically due to 1 rootsystem but, likely, way closer to just 1. Think about it, trees&bushes are quite similar and, for this purpose, equivalent in 'bush-back'. So, you have something growing and you train it to a bush over a period of years. It now has, what, 500 tips? A thousand? You see where I'm going with this
Growth rate* is relative to cambial tissue IE how much their is and how smoothly/well it is functioning.
(*this is, obviously, taking as granted species conisderations, proper pH/feeding/substrate/sunlight/husbandry, but is a good general guideline -- the tree you're picturing w/ 2 leads doesn't have 2 leads that are as-big as it'd have had with 1 lead. But, when it comes to pruning to get more tips and the relationship that has on growth-rate, I think you'd generally find it's specie-dependent and you wanna do what makes that specie happy, you can get Bougainvilleas to get real bushy & healthy with frequent pruning, try that w/ an Oak and it gets unhappy....one's a bush the other a tall tree....most-everything we work with in bonsai is on some continuum between the two. How you get to those 2 growing-tips matters as well, I mean if you're comparing 2 plants and one has double the trunk-mass because it has a 2nd trunk, then of course it'll produce more foliage, but if you mean stopping growth (thwarting an apical tip) before the branch/primary has girthened enough for your final designs then I'd advise strongly against that, it'll cause more growth in the form of more buds not overall trunk thickening or something)
LittleDingus
Omono
We're having upper 40F and rain today so I too my coastal redwoods outside to enjoy the weather. While they were outside, I took some pictures. Here's an inadvertent "experiment" showing a real world example or single tip vs multiple tip growth. Draw whatever conclusions from it that you wish...
I have several coastal redwoods that are all 3 years old...germinated in the same batch. After 1 season, something happened to one of them that the main trunk died back and the tree did what coastal redwoods do...it sprouted new leaders. About a dozen of them! I trimmed back some and continue to wipe off buds to keep the tree to only 6. I want to reduce to 5 but wanted the spare for now
And here they are after 2 seasons of additional growth.
View attachment 351709 View attachment 351710 View attachment 351711
There are both in the same size grow bag. They have spent their entire lives not much more than 3 feet away from one another. Same water, same light, same fertilizer routine, etc...
There was about 2" of trunk below where the multi-leader tree forks. It'll be interesting to see how that developed when I get a chance to repot that one. Right now, the soil line is almost up to the knob as you can see in the picture. That tree needs to go into a wider grow bag before it can go back outside in the spring anyway.
Alright, I repotted my candelabra coastal redwood into a 10 gallon grow back today. While doing so, I pulled back the soil that was covering the trunk to add some more data for this thread. Again, draw your own conclusions. Do keep in mind these trees are 3 years old and grown virtually identically.
First, a side view of the 2 trees:
This picture is after repotting. Before repotting, the two trees were in identical 3 gallon grow bags. The one on the left has 6 apical branches. The one on the right has a single apical branch.
One would expect the main trunk under the 6 apical branches to be thicker than the single trunk. And it is:
Because it's a little hard to see the wet trunk against the wet soil, I took a picture with the tape measure behind the trunk as well.
