Growing just a sacrefice...

[DirkvanDreven]

i have this japanese black pine. From seed, about 8 years old. the cultivation did not go well: I have some branches at the bottom, otherwise I have only grown a sacrificial branch. The base is great. My plan is to put a graft on the trunk, just above the low bend in the trunk, where some bark has already been removed, and build a tree with it (and then first grow the structure of the tree, and then grow a sacrefice branch).


I don't really need the current sacrifice anymore. Perhaps before some thickness growth at the location of the graft. I have now lost a similar tree, by removing the sacrificial branch in one go.
How do I do this as safely as possible? prune a number of branches in the autumn in three years' time? And which branches should I start with? with the upper, most vigorous, or with the lower branches?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I'm not sure why you would need to mess around with a branch graft. You have plenty of low growth that you could build an entire tree from. First thing you need to do is remove about 90% of the needles from your sacrifice growth in order to get the tree to shift resources to that low growth.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I want to keep the bend in the trunk, it has decent taper very low and the smal branches are within one inch from the soil. And I will start with removing needles from the sacrifice branch.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I want to keep the bend in the trunk, it has decent taper very low and the smal branches are within one inch from the soil. And I will start with removing needles from the sacrifice branch.

The question isn't what taper it has now. It's what taper it will have five years from now when you get the pruning scar to heal, and whether you will be left with a lump of inverse taper high on a stove-pipe straight section of trunk. I would think twice about cutting the trunk that high, and then having to depend on a single grafted branch to close the trunk scar. It will take you a couple of years at least just to get the graft to take... and if you prune the trunk back too close to the graft (like you would typically want to do when closing a big wound) you may damage or cause the graft to fail.

Or... you could just wire one of those low branches as your new trunk, and be well on your way today.

Just what I would do. Obviously do whatever you like - I hope you prove me wrong!

 

[JeffS73]

You could graft 2 or three scions on in Spring, that will give you options and fallbacks if one or two fail.

I haven't removed a sacrifice before, but I have grafted JWP onto 3yo JBP and removed the whole top in a single season. I did it in stages and got 3 flushes on my white pine scions. You need to see bud movement in your grafts first though. I waited until the first candles on the rootstock JBP were pretty much fully extended and then cut them off. The grafted buds really grew strong then. New buds formed on the rootstock JBP. When they started to push out, I gradually cut the back the old shoots, from the top down over the rest of the season.

If I were you I'd do it gradually, but no harm in cutting the candles on the sacrifice and seeing if scions respond. You could thin out the top this autumn, but I think you'd get less of a push to the scions that way.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Once trunk big enough cut just above forked branch. Then develop. No need grafting.

 

[Shibui]

The upper branches are always the strongest so if you want to reduce in steps start with the top.
I would just chop the sacrifice trunk above a branch at or above the point you want to retain. If I was grafting on this trunk I would graft while the trunk is still live and active. Good sap flow should improve graft success. Then start to reduce the trunk back to a healthy branch when the grafts are healthy and growing. Reducing the upper trunk will activate the new grafts to grow even better.

I have found grafting into a thicker trunk quite difficult. It is much harder to match stock and scion cambium when the trunk is large and bark is thick so I hope you have had some experience.
I can see why you want to retain the low bend but also agree with the others that regrowing the trunk from the lower shoots will probably be much easier and quicker in the long run.

 

[Stella]

Following to see what you will be doing with this one

 

[JeffS73]

Looking back at picture 3, I think bonsainut is right...you have achieved a nice trunk, you have a branch on the bend for the next trunk section that will give you great taper. Also, the scar will face away from the front, it's ideal really. I've changed my mind and would follow advice to reduce the sacrifice gradually, starting next Spring. In fact, you could try putting some grafts above the bend to practice, and you will still have the choice next year.

Watching to see how it goes, good luck, its nice material.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Thanks all for chiming in. There is enough time, I'll reconsider all suggestions!

 

[DirkvanDreven]

It is out of the ground. Still in the pondbasket, where it will be till next spring. Some branche are allready wired. Now chasing green back to the trunk, and keeping small what is small

 

[leatherback]

Happy to see you did not graft but "just" chopped!

 

[Dirk]

no text

 

[Dirk]

First styling, all remaining branches were used! Thanks Bruno!

 

[AshleyMammal]

Wow wow wow!

FWIW I think you made the right call not the graft, it'll be a better tree in the end.

 

[Ryceman3]

What happened to your original @DirkvanDreven account?
I like the trunk chop/no graft solution though regardless!

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I don't know. Seems to be back now