Ground up moss or not?

[damiano68]

P.s. svelato l'arcano, osservare nell'allegato il piccolo banner sotto

 

[NeedlesAndLeaves]

We should probably write an article about the use of moss in bonsai I think of it as two different questions: (1) can you grow moss (at all) and (2) should you grow moss on your bonsai.

As in many cases, it often comes down to where you live, and your local conditions - particularly the water you have available, and your humidity and sun exposure. In places like the Pacific Northwest, with high humidity, high rainfall (soft, acidic water), and many cloudy days, it is almost impossible NOT to grow moss on your trees. However the same can not be said for Phoenix, AZ, where trying to grow moss on your soil surfaces would likely be an exercise in frustration, due to the low humidity, intense sun, and hard, alkaline water.

Then there is the question of whether it is good (for the health of your trees) to have the soil surface covered with moss - particularly if you find yourself supplementing your soil with organic material in order to do so. You may find that a moss covering keeps your soil too wet, or keeps the bark of the tree too wet - causing health or aesthetic problems.

Many people get around these issues by growing trays of moss separately, so that they can provide perfect moss-growing conditions, and they place pads of moss on trees when they show them. You may find that the optimal conditions for growing moss (at your location) are different than the optimal conditions for growing your trees. Additionally, you may be able to provide special care (like watering moss with distilled water) that would be impractical on a larger scale (for example, if you water your bonsai garden with hard, alkaline water from your municipality). Finally, it is a good method to dial in your own moss "best practices" without having to do so on the soil surface of one of your bonsai trees. If you can't grow moss on separate containers, it is not very likely you would ever be successful doing so on the soil of your trees.

Many thanks for your input . All comments above are usefull imo.
Besides all, to me the moss just adds to the aesthetics of (many) Bonsai.

 

[rockm]

I've typed this response, or a variation of it, to moss questions so many times in the last couple of years that I realize I should just cut and paste it--maybe the topic should be a sticky post...

Moss is seasonal. It dries up when it's hot and dry. It returns when conditions are good for it. It is NOT a permanent addition to bonsai containers. It's temporary and will come and go. The moss in all those photos of exhibition bonsai has been added for the photo/show specifically. It's removed after that event.

Also, Trying to keep it green in a bonsai container all the time is a waste of time and potentially detrimental to the tree in the container--what works for the moss (higher soil moisture) may not be what the tree prefers. I've found that it can grow well where bonsai soil has become compacted and constantly wet--a sign the soil is collapsing and drainage has broken down. It other words, a sign you have brewing problems with the tree...

Bottom line, The best moss to use for bonsai is Bryum argenteum. It's the green/blue green stuff that grows in cracks in concrete sidewalks and other locations. The moss in Trevor's second photo is bryum. It can take a lot of sun and heat. It stays compact and low on the soil. It's pretty common if you look. You can peel it off of sidewalks, the ground, etc. pretty easily in smaller patches. Other species of moss, like mosses from forests etc., can be a waste of time, since it won't adapt well to hot, sunny well drained bonsai soil.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

You can peel it off of sidewalks, the ground, etc. pretty easily in smaller patches. Other species of moss, like mosses from forests etc., can be a waste of time, since it won't adapt well to hot, sunny well drained bonsai soil.

We've talked about this before, but my best moss gathering spot in SoCal was outside a car wash where excess water ran into cracks in the parking lot and sidewalk. The most beautiful green moss - sitting in full Southern California sun with zero shade.

 

[nuttiest]

We've talked about this before, but my best moss gathering spot in SoCal was outside a car wash where excess water ran into cracks in the parking lot and sidewalk. The most beautiful green moss - sitting in full Southern California sun with zero shade.

That is crazy all that soap in it! I guess I am going to the car wash.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

That is crazy all that soap in it! I guess I am going to the car wash.

I have to assume that in California, they are using "green" soap in their car wash - because some of it was flowing into the street drains - which drained to the ocean.

/EDIT I just looked up the car wash and it says "Completely Touchless, Environmentally Friendly Carwash"

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

Has anyone tried using moss spores? I got this in a ABS swag bag at a show in May. The real info I'd like to know is, Will these spores be good years from now when I have a tree nice enough for moss?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Moss is seasonal. It dries up when it's hot and dry. It returns when conditions are good for it. It is NOT a permanent addition to bonsai containers. It's temporary and will come and go. The moss in all those photos of exhibition bonsai has been added for the photo/show specifically. It's removed after that event.

Also, Trying to keep it green in a bonsai container all the time is a waste of time and potentially detrimental to the tree in the container--what works for the moss (higher soil moisture) may not be what the tree prefers. I've found that it can grow well where bonsai soil has become compacted and constantly wet--a sign the soil is collapsing and drainage has broken down. It other words, a sign you have brewing problems with the tree...

Each to their own. Somewhat of a blanket statement. Hopefully not gonna turn out to be a media thread

However, seems to me to not actually be the case… At least out here. Maybe not back east. We keep moss on all trees at home year around as does PBM. Only removed during soji or repot. No issues. A few example photos taken at PBM in the past couple of weeks.
imho. Moss is merely a tool. One just has to learn how to properly use it.



Cheers
DSD sends

 

[rockm]

Each to their own. Somewhat of a blanket statement. Hopefully not gonna turn out to be a media thread

However, seems to me to not actually be the case… At least out here. Maybe not back east. We keep moss on all trees at home year around as does PBM. Only removed during soji or repot. No issues. A few example photos taken at PBM in the past couple of weeks.
imho. Moss is merely a tool. One just has to learn how to properly use it.

View attachment 557680View attachment 557683View attachment 557684

Cheers
DSD sends

Not to each his own. To each his own climate and microclimate. you live in the Pacific Northwest. Perfect for moss. The rest of the country is not the PNW. We have hot (and getting hotter) summer. We have drought (here in the middle-Atlantic states some areas are entering periods of extreme drought.

And FWIW, moss on a deadwood juniper? Kinda counterintuitive? discuss...

 

[penumbra]

Has anyone tried using moss spores? I got this in a ABS swag bag at a show in May. The real info I'd like to know is, Will these spores be good years from now when I have a tree nice enough for moss?

View attachment 557598

I have tried this moss a few times with no success.

 

[rockm]

Has anyone tried using moss spores? I got this in a ABS swag bag at a show in May. The real info I'd like to know is, Will these spores be good years from now when I have a tree nice enough for moss?

View attachment 557598

This stuff rarely works without pretty intense cultivation in a container by itself--It's great if you can get it to "take" but mostly a waste of time, as it can be difficult to get the spores to stay on the soil surface of an existing bonsai, since it gets washed off from regular watering.

It's also a variety from Kyoto. Best way to get moss is to collect LOCAL moss WHEN YOU NEED IT. The ultimate way to get moss is to wait until it comes up on its own in your bonsai pot.

 

[shohin_branches]

I spend a lot of time mossing trees because I love moss. I prefer using the transplant method because ground up moss gets eaten by the isopod army in my yard. Your substrate should be wet and your moss should be wet and you press the moss tight to the substrate. For pines or full sun plants I may use plastic canvas to shade the moss for a week ir two until it gets established. My extra moss gets planted in pumice trays around my small pots.

The type of moss you use is important. I have two that do really well in full sun so collect moss from full sun areas and you'll have the best results.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Not to each his own. To each his own climate and microclimate. you live in the Pacific Northwest. Perfect for moss. The rest of the country is not the PNW. We have hot (and getting hotter) summer. We have drought (here in the middle-Atlantic states some areas are entering periods of extreme drought.

Hmm… Exactly the point. Each to their own. We have extreme drought from July-mid September. It’s rare to see rain.

And FWIW, moss on a deadwood juniper? Kinda counterintuitive? discuss...

Likely due to the fact these posted are trees on display 365 days a year. There are over 140 in similar state at PBM. In our yard, another 200+, including Junipers. Doesn’t seem to bother.

All trees posted are recently repotted or early in their repot cycle. Demonstrates having moss on pots doesn’t necessarily mean the media is in poor condition. Granted, it can.

There seem to be many mosses good for display here, with a few not good at all. “Irish moss” is one of the dreaded moss. We have been using Yamagoke as a starter to good effect. However experience over time shows moss population on each pot eventually evolves. In fall one can go from tree to tree and often see marked variation of moss populations. This is can vary due to new moss spores from skyfall number of types predominating.

Best
DSD sends

 

[rockm]

Hmm… Exactly the point. Each to their own. We have extreme drought from July-mid September. It’s rare to see rain.

Likely due to the fact these posted are trees on display 365 days a year. There are over 140 in similar state at PBM. In our yard, another 200+, including Junipers. Doesn’t seem to bother.

All trees posted are recently repotted or early in their repot cycle. Demonstrates having moss on pots doesn’t necessarily mean the media is in poor condition. Granted, it can.

There seem to be many mosses good for display here, with a few not good at all. “Irish moss” is one of the dreaded moss. We have been using Yamagoke as a starter to good effect. However experience over time shows moss population on each pot eventually evolves. In fall one can go from tree to tree and often see marked variation of moss populations. This is can vary due to new moss spores from skyfall number of types predominating.

Best
DSD sends

You miss the point about the juniper. Not asking about ability asking about appropriate to the image being presented--deadwood implies a harsh environment, massive amounts of deadwood speak to a VERY harsh one. Moss suggests otherwise.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Darn. Thought the information in the posts stood out, but my fault.

Certainly correct on the aesthetic viewpoint.

Yet it’s one of those persnickety trade off bonsai purists often tend to neglect. But all in good fun.

Aesthetic = deadwood implies a harsh environment, massive amounts of deadwood speak to a VERY harsh one

Health of the tree = keeping these trees alive is especially tricky and we’ve found moss to help.

Cheers
DSD sends