Getting Back Budding On A Trident Maple

[jimlau]

i want to get secondary buds to pop on a trident maple branch. i pinched off the leading shoot.

does it help encourage the most-forward buds to grow and open if i also remove some or all of the other leaves on that branch? or should i only remove the leaves on the end of the branch?

thanks.

 

[0soyoung]

Pinching out the leading shoot only stops the shoot from extending. You must also remove nearly or all of the foliage on that shoot to get back budding (i.e., release buds on the trunk side of the leafs closest to the trunk).

Auxin is produced by the leading shoot (apical meristem) and each leaf. Auxin flows down the tree toward the roots. To get back budding one must cause the auxin flow to drop dramatically over a short period of time. Removing just the tip doesn't do this, nor does removing just a leaf or two.

So, "let it grow, then chop it back" if you want back budding.

 

[KayaMooney]

Remove the terminal bud and then you should soon start to see buds forming at the base of the leaves on that current branch. You can cut the leaves in half to help the buds emerge quicker and then cut the leaf down to a nub close to the branch when the bud fully emerges and it will soon fall off on its own as the new branch emerges all the way.

 

[jimlau]

just to be clear, i'm trying to get the forward-most buds to open. I am doing a thread graft and will do it right when I see a bud swell. so even tho the buds are at the end of the branch, I should still remove nearly all leaves along the branch?

i also have a mulberry whose top 2/3's died over the winter. so i m doing a lot of thread grafts, while also letting a new leader grow untouched. i imagine there is conflict between letting the new top grow untouched so it can thicken, and directing energy down for the thread grafts? thankfully mulberries grow rapidly, so i am doing both concurrently, but can it get to the point where i best cut down the leader and slow down its thickening to help the low branch development?

 

[0soyoung]

Remove the terminal bud and then you should soon start to see buds forming at the base of the leaves on that current branch. You can cut the leaves in half to help the buds emerge quicker and then cut the leaf down to a nub close to the branch when the bud fully emerges and it will soon fall off on its own as the new branch emerges all the way.

But this is not "back budding" in my language.

just to be clear, i'm trying to get the forward-most buds to open.

This is what I call "back budding", if you mean buds closer to the trunk than the leaves nearest to the trunk.

I am doing a thread graft and will do it right when I see a bud swell. so even tho the buds are at the end of the branch, I should still remove nearly all leaves along the branch?

.

As I said before, I would. However, I would do it before buds start swelling so that it is easier to thread through the hole without damaging the scion branch. Real bonsai experts with beautiful trees may tell you differently. While I continue trying to make beautiful bonsai of which I could be proud, I am mostly into why-it-works kinds of things. It is your tree and your life - you choose.

I also have a mulberry whose top 2/3's died over the winter. so i m doing a lot of thread grafts, while also letting a new leader grow untouched. i imagine there is conflict between letting the new top grow untouched so it can thicken, and directing energy down for the thread grafts?

The real energy in a tree comes from the foliage - photosynthate: sugars. It is transported down the tree in the phloem. To do their job, leaves must have water and some essential minerals (plus phytohormones like cytokinin). These are supplied by the xlyem (woody tissue). If some branch or twig becomes too strong, you just reduce the amount of foliage on it - its subsequent development will be less strong, more or less in proportion to the reduction in foliage. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

Ryan Neil talks of where a tree's energy comes from which is a feeling of how much foliage or how much of the root system can be pruned away without adversely affecting the tree. When he says 'the energy' comes from the roots, he's really saying to not remove much root mass. Don't remove much foliage when he says 'the energy' comes from the foliage. It is an unfortunate choice of words (though I have no other suggestion) because real energy comes exclusively from the foliage.