Garden center Chinese Elm

[brentwood]

Picked this guy up at garden center with local bonsai group... I always wanted one, feel like I accomplished that, of nothing else. ?
Cut some whips off it, not much else - kinda want to bring it way in, too late in spring for that? Dayton Ohio, zone 5B toward 6...

Brent

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Now is a good time to prune. Study these photos first to make a plan so you don’t get lost or carried away with the scissors...

 

[music~maker]

Before you prune anything, ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish, and what phase of development are you at.

Are you happy with the trunk like this? That's one possible path. Do you want the trunk to thicken up? That's another.

How are the roots? Is that tree root bound? If so, you might want to do some clean-up on that first. But keep in mind that the amount of root work you do could impact the answers to my previous two questions above. If it's not, then maybe you either play with branches or just let it grow out some more.

When starting with nursery stock, I usually start by making sure the roots are all squared away, and then I use that newly improved root system to get the trunk to do what I want. During that initial process I might do some macro-level pruning, but don't get to fixated on little things that long-term won't matter. During my process of resetting the roots, I'll usually leave most branches in place unless I'm 100% sure that I'll never need them. And even then, sometimes I think twice.

For example, that big lower branch is a great potential sacrifice. Don't cut that off lightly. It likely won't be part of a final design, but it's the best positioned branch to thicken the base of your trunk. You want to let it do it's job before you remove it. Take that approach with everything. Ask yourself, "how can this branch contribute to the trees growth over the next few of seasons?"

Also, in the initial conversion from nursery stock to pre-bonsai, I'll often gradually scale the tree up a bit over a period of years, then occasionally scale it back down again, then potentially do it again. That process of slowly scaling up and down improves the trunk over time.

And FYI - it's not too late to do work on this as long as you do it right now. If you wait a week or two more, you'll just need to leave it alone for a while. I usually do re-pots when buds swell, and will occasionally go just until the leafs start to pop. Anything much beyond that and you're not doing it any favors, and can do some serious damage. The closer to the point it's at here, usually the lighter I go on the root work just on general principle.

 

[W3rk]

That's got a ton of branching to work with, good starter material. Clarify what you mean by "bring it way in" - do you mean you want to trim it back hard? If this tree stays healthy you should find that it grows incredibly well and you can easily cut it back significantly to reduce the size, if that's your game plan. You could also layer off the top and you can easily root branch/whip cuttings.

 

[brentwood]

That's got a ton of branching to work with, good starter material. Clarify what you mean by "bring it way in" - do you mean you want to trim it back hard? If this tree stays healthy you should find that it grows incredibly well and you can easily cut it back significantly to reduce the size, if that's your game plan. You could also layer off the top and you can easily root branch/whip cuttings.

Bring it in meaning cut it back hard, yes.
I am looking at that bottom branch as sacrifice, don't see a scenario where I keep it. It feels a little long and straight, would like it more compact, but I do see it fatter, also - don't want to take away so much green that it doesn't grow.
Appreciate the talk about roots. I talked myself out of touching them, but maybe that's fear driven more than logic. I knew I was close to missing my window, will jump by weekend or not at all

B

 

[sorce]

long and straight

The remaining part will also be long and straight.....and.....taperless...

Consider...


But not soon.

Here's my thing.

You can nurture the tree I yellowed out forever without ever cutting anything else.
So why cut?

You can take a layer and have this very same material in 1-2 years.
So why not cut?

If it was me, I'd take a shitload of haphazard cutting cuz half will take.

Remove all but the best 2-3segment transitions from the center and airlayer it.

maybe layer some higher good transitions as trees too.

But stop looking at what is straight.
See what isnt straight!

But do see what gets straighter after cuts!

Nice.

Looks a cultivar...is it?

Sorce

 

[brentwood]

First, I can't find the tag, not sure the variety - that's going to bug me.
I do look at these and see the straight sections, never considered that I was thinking about it craw, will take that to heart.
I did consider at least one of the layers you've marked, but it would be my first attempt, maybe after a season. Later summer?
I'm considering cuts more like the attached, would gibe with the layering of the branch going up to the left at 45 degrees. I did consider the full trunk chop also, maybe after there is something else alive from this guy.
I think first stop is the roots, think I'm going to put in better soil and see if it's root bound.
Thanks for all this input, I'll post updates
B

 

[brentwood]

I pulled it out of the pot last night, just a solid mass of roots, some good fat ones wrapping the rest. Spent almost two hours cutting and teasing it, cut the bottom three inches off...
That means no trimming now, right? Wait for late summer?
Brent

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

With deciduous trees it is normally acceptable to prune the branches at the same time as repotting. Your elm looks healthy, and Chinese elms are known to be very vigorous, I would not be concerned at all pruning at the places you identified in post #7. Frankly, Chinese elms are common enough, that I would not bother to make an air layer unless you found the segment you wanted to take to be unusually attractive. If you want more Chinese elms to work with you can either just pick up a few more, or strike cuttings. Cuttings, even large diameter cuttings root well enough at a high enough % that it is not worth the effort, and the extra time required to do air layers. Normally you don't put an air layer on a tree the same season your repot the tree. An air layer will also require you stop doing other bonsai activities with the tree until you can remove the air layer. It is a good technique to learn and know how to do. But I hear " air layer this", or ''Air layer that'' far more often than really is practical. I only do air layers on rare, hard to obtain, named cultivars that do not root from cuttings easily. With elm, just strike a bunch of cuttings and you will have more than you want.

So I would say go ahead and prune as you marked in post #7.

I don't think you need to reduce as radically as Sorce recommended. Though in time, his recommendation could work.

 

[brentwood]

Still have not chopped back yet, too late? Still spring, growing well - do I have to wait now?
Brent

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Not too late. Go for it.

 

[brentwood]

Not too late. Go for it.

Hey, thanks for the encouragement... I've been poring over old threads, had almost talked myself into it and it of it a dozen times. My wife is going to be sad, would like it as a bush in the yard, may have to buy another ?
Brent

 

[Maloghurst]

The remaining part will also be long and straight.....and.....taperless...

Consider...
View attachment 236459

But not soon.

Here's my thing.

You can nurture the tree I yellowed out forever without ever cutting anything else.
So why cut?

You can take a layer and have this very same material in 1-2 years.
So why not cut?

If it was me, I'd take a shitload of haphazard cutting cuz half will take.

Remove all but the best 2-3segment transitions from the center and airlayer it.View attachment 236460

maybe layer some higher good transitions as trees too.

But stop looking at what is straight.
See what isnt straight!

But do see what gets straighter after cuts!

Nice.

Looks a cultivar...is it?

Sorce

Looks like a Catlin Elm.

 

[brentwood]

And it is done.

 

[brentwood]

And it is done. View attachment 244456

And as expected, wife is disappointed.. "hope you didn't pay too much for it" ?

 

[Traken]

And as expected, wife is disappointed.. "hope you didn't pay too much for it" ?

She just needs to have faith. lol.

 

[AaronThomas]

And as expected, wife is disappointed.. "hope you didn't pay too much for it" ?

Hahahaha just had that conversation about pots!?

 

[erb.75]

hey man, did you get hit by the storm? do you get emails from the Dayton club? we have something coming up in June

 

[brentwood]

hey man, did you get hit by the storm? do you get emails from the Dayton club? we have something coming up in June

Hey Jeremy, it all went North of us, too close for comfort. Have not seen anything, interested tho. We got hit on base, tho - miracle not more people hurt.
Brent

 

[erb.75]

email the club email and tell John if you want to go to Mark Field's place on June 14th (a Friday). It's a bring your own tree workshop and it'd be free for you. It's 2 hours away, but I'm sure there will be some carpooling? Just let us know if you can make it