Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,640
- USDA Zone
- 5b
Several issues seem to be getting conflated here.
First, I thought I was being light hearted, gentle and not didactic when I suggested that some tree species are easier to create traditional bonsai with than others. I am not telling you how to spend your time, but I am saying that the traits of the EAST of THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER species of ash are not well suited to bonsai. And, Leo, the younger Leo @HorseloverFat did correctly interpret my meaning, no harm, no foul. Note that I pointed out the eastern species of Ash were not good choices for bonsai. I was aware of some of the different species of ash around the world and know that at least one or two of the Asian ash species and some of the species of ash from the desert southwest of the USA (@Hartinez ) were good or at least better choices for bonsai. I am not familiar with the European ash growth traits, @Lutonian , but I clearly only said the eastern North American ash species were poor choices.
So yes, you are correct, Fraxinus bungeana and which ever of the 4 species of ash native to New Mexico that Danny @Hartinez is working with is actually look pretty good for bonsai. I ended up looking up Fraxinus on Wikipedia (the source for all knowledge, LOL) and there are 45 to 65 species of Fraxinus, depending on who's criteria you use for defining species. To my surprise there are 3 species native to the general Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Indiana area. You might pick up a 4th species in extreme southern IL and IN. But as far as I can tell, my general comments really hold for Fraxinus pennsylvanica ( green ash), F. americana (white ash or American ash) and F. nigra (black ash) as far as these three species relate to bonsai.
But there are at least 45 to 65 species, so if you have a local ash that you think might be good for bonsai, don't let my comments stop you from trying.
@Hartinez - Danny, that is a nice ash you are working with, when you have time, you should figure out which of the 4 possible species native to New Mexico your tree is.
@DavidBoren - Species conservation- Bonsai is about creating images with trees. Species conservation is not a topic that the collective "we" are organized around. Yes, the emerald ash borer and the associated fungus is a problem. But I don't know if the populations of Fraxinus have been depleted to the point where groups like the Nature Conservancy and USFWS and other groups would get involved. I don't think ash species are even remotely close to being eligible to being put on the endangered species lists. But these concerns are not trivial. Its just that BNut and ABS and the bonsai hobby in general is not equipped to do much about the issue. If you are concerned, check in with groups like Nature Conservancy. Most cities have a local chapter. A little web browsing can probably put you into touch with your local chapter. Another place to go is your local Ag Extension office. Ag Extension is concerned for all agricultural diseases, and by extension, forest diseases. Your Ag Extension offices will have a handle on how bad EAB is in your area and how bad the loss of ash trees has been. They also may have guidance for things you can do locally to remedy the situation. At least for my area of the country, while we are loosing many ash trees, there is no worry about them actually going extinct. We have a lot of ash trees. We do worry about loosing significant portions as in percentages of our urban, suburban and forest canopies. But extinction is not the concern.
I have a dead ash tree laying on the ground in my back yard that needs to be sawed up and burned. I just have not gotten to it yet. It was an EAB victim some years ago.
First, I thought I was being light hearted, gentle and not didactic when I suggested that some tree species are easier to create traditional bonsai with than others. I am not telling you how to spend your time, but I am saying that the traits of the EAST of THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER species of ash are not well suited to bonsai. And, Leo, the younger Leo @HorseloverFat did correctly interpret my meaning, no harm, no foul. Note that I pointed out the eastern species of Ash were not good choices for bonsai. I was aware of some of the different species of ash around the world and know that at least one or two of the Asian ash species and some of the species of ash from the desert southwest of the USA (@Hartinez ) were good or at least better choices for bonsai. I am not familiar with the European ash growth traits, @Lutonian , but I clearly only said the eastern North American ash species were poor choices.
So yes, you are correct, Fraxinus bungeana and which ever of the 4 species of ash native to New Mexico that Danny @Hartinez is working with is actually look pretty good for bonsai. I ended up looking up Fraxinus on Wikipedia (the source for all knowledge, LOL) and there are 45 to 65 species of Fraxinus, depending on who's criteria you use for defining species. To my surprise there are 3 species native to the general Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, and Indiana area. You might pick up a 4th species in extreme southern IL and IN. But as far as I can tell, my general comments really hold for Fraxinus pennsylvanica ( green ash), F. americana (white ash or American ash) and F. nigra (black ash) as far as these three species relate to bonsai.
But there are at least 45 to 65 species, so if you have a local ash that you think might be good for bonsai, don't let my comments stop you from trying.
@Hartinez - Danny, that is a nice ash you are working with, when you have time, you should figure out which of the 4 possible species native to New Mexico your tree is.
@DavidBoren - Species conservation- Bonsai is about creating images with trees. Species conservation is not a topic that the collective "we" are organized around. Yes, the emerald ash borer and the associated fungus is a problem. But I don't know if the populations of Fraxinus have been depleted to the point where groups like the Nature Conservancy and USFWS and other groups would get involved. I don't think ash species are even remotely close to being eligible to being put on the endangered species lists. But these concerns are not trivial. Its just that BNut and ABS and the bonsai hobby in general is not equipped to do much about the issue. If you are concerned, check in with groups like Nature Conservancy. Most cities have a local chapter. A little web browsing can probably put you into touch with your local chapter. Another place to go is your local Ag Extension office. Ag Extension is concerned for all agricultural diseases, and by extension, forest diseases. Your Ag Extension offices will have a handle on how bad EAB is in your area and how bad the loss of ash trees has been. They also may have guidance for things you can do locally to remedy the situation. At least for my area of the country, while we are loosing many ash trees, there is no worry about them actually going extinct. We have a lot of ash trees. We do worry about loosing significant portions as in percentages of our urban, suburban and forest canopies. But extinction is not the concern.
I have a dead ash tree laying on the ground in my back yard that needs to be sawed up and burned. I just have not gotten to it yet. It was an EAB victim some years ago.
Last edited:
