First pine - P. nigra

[Toshi]

I went to Home Depot last weekend to get some supplies for diy around my apartment and had a walk around the garden section (stupid). I ended up leaving with this Austrian Pine as well as a Burning Bush. They did have white pines but I read online that they're not as hardy in my zone, not sure if that's indeed correct or not. This is my 1st pine and I figured for $30 it's a good way to orient myself with the species.

My proposed long term goal is to reduce to a shohin size, what's the best way to accomplish that? Are pines tolerant of hard cutbacks such that you can chase back the foliage somewhat aggressively? I'd assume that's different for 1 and 2 flush pines but again I know nothing, still doing my homework. My other question is in regards to repotting next season; how much of the rootball can i safely remove? It's in a massive 3gal pot at the moment that hasn't needed watering since I got it.

Truthfully i'm not sure I even want to grow it as a bonsai since I really like it as is and might just leave it be and enjoy it. My plants are on a south facing balcony on a top floor that gets brutal sunlight for 6-9hrs with some pretty heavy winds.

I'm a total newbie here so all comments/criticisms are very much welcomed.

 

[GGB]

Never go hard on a pine of any species. Whole genus has to be worked very slowly. I had a nigra and it did back bud pretty well but I sort of wish I had just used it as landscape. Seems like fine ramifications on these things is tough. But there are some fine looking ones around the site. maybe just keep it as a small tree to observe and try candle pinching/pruning on. Your balcony sounds perfect for pines

 

[River's Edge]

Never go hard on a pine of any species. Whole genus has to be worked very slowly. I had a nigra and it did back bud pretty well but I sort of wish I had just used it as landscape. Seems like fine ramifications on these things is tough. But there are some fine looking ones around the site. maybe just keep it as a small tree to observe and try candle pinching/pruning on. Your balcony sounds perfect for pines

I started with Austrian Black Pines, great trees to learn on. treat them the same as instructions for JBP. One of the differences will be the bark is not as striking as JBP and takes much longer to mature. On the positive note they are more suited to colder temperatures. If you wish to use the tree for Bonsai i would repot it into Bonsai soil and a suitable grow box or anderson flat next spring! Save the pruning, wiring etc until you have established a good healthy root ball and vigorously growing pine.

 

[Toshi]

Thank you both I really appreciate it. Next spring I'll repot into a more suitable bonsai mix, for now I think I'll just leave it be and observe. I was thinking about cutting 1 or 2 branches just to see how it reacts but probably not. I'll look into JBP care since it's similar. I would've loved to get one but the only ones I could find were on ebay and even tiny ugly little trees there sell for more than I'm willing to pay considering they would be learning tools. I did grow 2 JBP seedlings last year and gave them away, maybe I'll just start some from seed again.

 

[Silentrunning]

That “ring” under the first 2 branches worries me. Is it that distinct in real life, or is it the camera?

 

[Toshi]

That “ring” under the first 2 branches worries me. Is it that distinct in real life, or is it the camera?

That's a great eye I didn't realize that, it's not the camera.

 

[0soyoung]

treat them the same as instructions for JBP.

I've got a couple that I've been playing with for a few years. Cutting part of last year's candle/shoot in the following spring (i.e., well before the summer equinox) will pop fascicular buds, but standard JBP decandling (removal of this spring's candle) just resulted a fascicular or a new terminal bud that wouldn't push until the next season. In fact, I've had cases wherein no new terminal bud or fascicular bud set. This is especially true for pruning mine after the summer equinox. Foliage is hardened and new terminal buds are set by then.

Mine do back bud nicely if just let run (similar to p. sylvestris) but otherwise mine don't respond anything like JBP. The nursery identified them as p. nigra, but maybe not. Dendrology has never been one of my strong suits.

 

[River's Edge]

I've got a couple that I've been playing with for a few years. Cutting part of last year's candle/shoot in the following spring (i.e., well before the summer equinox) will pop fascicular buds, but standard JBP decandling (removal of this spring's candle) just resulted a fascicular or a new terminal bud that wouldn't push until the next season. In fact, I've had cases wherein no new terminal bud or fascicular bud set. This is especially true for pruning mine after the summer equinox. Foliage is hardened and new terminal buds are set by then.

Mine do back bud nicely if just let run (similar to p. sylvestris) but otherwise mine don't respond anything like JBP. The nursery identified them as p. nigra, but maybe not. Dendrology has never been one of my strong suits.

This is one of the Pinus Nigra ( Austrian Black Pine that i am still experimenting with) I grafted a two branch scion from JBP two years ago on the right side. At the beginning of June this year i decandled the scion on the JBP grafted portion at the same time as the Pinus Nigra candle on the left side. The response on the Pinus Nigra is slower and not as vigorous as the JBP. However they are both producing a second set of candles where they were decandled. On the Pinus Nigra there are only two small buds beginning. On the JBP grafted scion there are five buds including a central bud.
This example is allowing me to observe differences and similarities over time. After seven years of working with Pinus Nigra i decided to plant most of them in the landscape due to the nature of the bark and longer internode characteristics. The graft was an attempt to correct a very long internode that had little taper and was reluctant to backbud.
There is clearly a difference in the growth response between the JBP scion and the Pinus Nigra. Not enough of a sample except for one observation. The Austrian Black Pine that have been retired to the landscape are showing good growth, long internodes and smoother grayer coloured bark then any of my Japanese Black Pine of similar age. I estimate the oldest Austrian Black Pine to be approximately 15 to 20 years at this time. They were purchased as nursery plants grown from seed.

 

[0soyoung]

At the beginning of June this year i decandled the scion on the JBP grafted portion at the same time as the Pinus Nigra candle on the left side. The response on the Pinus Nigra is slower and not as vigorous as the JBP. However they are both producing a second set of candles where they were decandled.

Thanks.
Its a bit late this year, but I'll try again and again next year.
I've not seen this (yet), but timing is everything!

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks.
Its a bit late this year, but I'll try again and again next year.
I've not seen this (yet), but timing is everything!

It is entirely possible that we are approaching decandling with different preparation. I begin fertilization early, in february/ march to pump up the tree before decandling . I time decandling for when the spring candle has extended and the needles have begun to spread on the new candle. This seems to give me the strongest response. I also have a very long growing season so i do not have to worry about wether there is enough time left in the growing season for the new buds to strengthen in time for winter. I should also note that my JBP are not always ready for decandling successfully every year. Some winters affect them more than others and the individual trees vary in vigour as well.
There is also the possibility that my microclimate in this location has more sunshine over longer periods of time. My growing area is open to the south , east and west, and protected with natural forest from the north. Located in the rain shadow of MT. Arrowsmith, Mt. Copley and MT. Moriarty. basically hot and dry summers ( Mediterranean like).
The longer i experiment with Bonsai the more i believe that tree condition and growing climate are critical variables to responses like single or multi flush characteristics.

 

[River's Edge]

Update on decandling Austrian Black Pine( Pinus Nigra) versus JBP ( Pinus Thunbergi ) Approximately 3 weeks ago i decandled the grafted JBP scion on my Austrian Black Pine at the same time as i decandled the other branch which is actual Austrian Black Pine. Both have produced a second flush of growth but there is a significant difference in vigor. I will let the pictures tell the tale. First is a picture of the Tree i experimented on. The next picture shows the growth of the second flush on the Pinus Nigra side. The last picture shows the JBP scion response to the right in front and the Pinus Nigra decandle in the background.