Field / Vine maple pruning

[BrierPatch]

I have a 3 - 4 yr old maple growing in my yard from seed. Not sure if it's a vine or field maple since I have an abundance of both growing around me. It's currently 24 inches tall. I wanted to know if it's too late this season to prune it back some to start reducing the internodes, and get more taper or wait till summer. Also not sure where to start my first cuts on what should be pruned. It's still growing in ground and figured I'd leave it there for at least the next season unless I feel it needs to be removed for some reason.

 

[rodeolthr]

When you say 'field maple', are you talking about the native Big Leaf Maple (acer macrophyllum)?

 

[BrierPatch]

Yes, Big Leaf Maple.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm… if it’s a big leaf maple, that would be a real challenge to bonsai. I can see one large maple leaves in the images, but I cant tell for sure. If it is, look for some decent material.

A vine maple is a way different story. For me, if it was, that’s worth working on. I’d wait to cut in the spring though.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[BrierPatch]

Ya, I figured a big leaf would be a challenge but figured I'd give it a try since it's either going to get pulled out or potted, it can't stay where it is. I know I have a few vine maples and it does look different than those ones so I may try and work on those.
Thanks for your input!

 

[rodeolthr]

Take a look at @parhamr 's thread concerning his efforts with acer macrophyllum

 

[BrierPatch]

Thx @rodeolthr I saw that after I posted, it gave a lot of insight to the effort it will take.

 

[0soyoung]

a big leaf maple, that would be a real challenge to bonsai.

A fun challenge, though, as it has some surprising characteristics that are very conducive to bonsai.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

A fun challenge, though, as it has some surprising characteristics that are very conducive to bonsai.

… so… an opportunity to excel !

Best
DSD sends

 

[parhamr]

Neat tree! This looks like a fun project.

This is the perfect time for a trunk chop and large branch removal. Since it’s in the ground, strongly established, and has big extension growths I know you can take it all the way to the ground and still get a nice flush next year. If you specifically know your yard has disease issues or if you have grown tomatoes nearby then sealing the cuts makes sense to me.

Just know though that these highly vascular deciduous trees are more likely than not (when so strongly resourced like this) to put on coarse and chunky growths in their first flush of the year. You’ll have more luck producing finer twigging and shorter internodes in the second and third flushes of the year. These flushes are best prompted and controlled by pruning.

(apologies if any of this is redundant; it’s a mix of my experiences, the lessons of my teachers, and guidance from other local practitioners)

For our climate it’s roughly late May to early June when the new foliage is hardened off and we can remove the new growth back to the best nodes for position, orientation, or length. Because you’re planning for future growths to be preserved then you ought to leave an extra node or two on each branch (in late fall pruning) to draw off the excess, early spring energy that can blow out to internode distances of 5–8 inches. If you’re always pruning back to the ideal node in the tall then you end up with coarse twigs on this sort of species.

The third flush (or second pruning) is wholly dependent on how the year went for weather, your technique, a relative read of the tree’s capacity, and just generally your risk tolerance. I think this is usually successful when done between the third weeks of August or September. You can prune back to the best new set of nodes yet again.

Regarding identification, this looks to me like a vine maple, but I’m not declaring this as fact. I love them equally well as the bigleafs.

I have a handful each of vine maple and bigleaf and think I see more of the vine (circinatum) characteristics between bark color, internode distances, bud a and branch shaping. My bigleafs get dark maroon reddish or almost purple colored bark, and not this sort of ruby coral greenish blend that we see here. The bark texture also looks different here — I can’t quite describe it, but this matches my experience where vine maple bark ages a bit more like the Japanese maple bark. For a rough description, I’d describe bigleaf bark aging to be more similar to Norway maple, sugar maple, cherry (minus the papery quality), or plum.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Really helps ID tree with leaves.

 

[BrierPatch]

Thanks @parhamr your advise is extremely helpful. So what I'm hearing is now is a great time to chop / prune it back. There are no disease issues or tomatoes nearby. Curious on the issue with tomatoes? Is it from spreading blight to other plants?
For my initial chop how far down would you recommend? Not sure if I want to take it all the way to the ground just yet.

I too was thinking it may be a vine maple since about 12 feet away there are about 5 fully mature vines. My only confusion is that the other vine maples (or I thought are vines) I have around which I'm going to dig up if I can, the bark is bright green.
Then across the street are 30-40 ft. bigleaf maples that spread seeds for miles.

@Potawatomi13, Unfortunately I don't have any pics of when it still had leaves. I've kind of just really never paid attention to it until this year now that it a bit larger.

Thanks again for helpful knowledge you've shared!

 

[parhamr]

Thanks @parhamr your advise is extremely helpful. So what I'm hearing is now is a great time to chop / prune it back. There are no disease issues or tomatoes nearby. Curious on the issue with tomatoes? Is it from spreading blight to other plants?
For my initial chop how far down would you recommend? Not sure if I want to take it all the way to the ground just yet.

I too was thinking it may be a vine maple since about 12 feet away there are about 5 fully mature vines. My only confusion is that the other vine maples (or I thought are vines) I have around which I'm going to dig up if I can, the bark is bright green.
Then across the street are 30-40 ft. bigleaf maples that spread seeds for miles.

@Potawatomi13, Unfortunately I don't have any pics of when it still had leaves. I've kind of just really never paid attention to it until this year now that it a bit larger.

Thanks again for helpful knowledge you've shared!

Bark color in maples can be highly dependent on exposure to sunlight. With more light exposure the colors can be more vivid. Given the fallen duff and nearby plants I suspect this one had a bit more shade. I could still be wrong.

Here’s a great source regarding cross-genus harboring and transmission of disease: https://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisea...mon/fungi/verticillium-wilt-pacific-northwest

If this were my tree and I were feeling bold then I’d chop it at the orange line and pick between branch A or B for the continued trunk line. Both look like decent choices, but my preference from seeing this in 2D is to
. For both chopping the trunk and removing one of the lower branches I would leave about a 1-inch stub to ensure good healing and continued sap flow. (A close cut right now could cause sap withdrawal, leading to dead cambium in a vertical line down the trunk.)



If you don’t have cut paste then don’t worry. These trees survive all sorts of horrendous ice, deer, and elk induced carnage every year.

 

[parhamr]

Aw, shoot — the editor truncated my opinion. I would choose branch B, but please own your tree and decide what’s right for it based on your taste and ability to see it in 3D.

 

[BrierPatch]

Thanks again @parhamr ! I'm still new to all this so big cuts make me nervous. Although It shouldn't since I've been cutting this other maple out of our rhodies for years now and it just keeps coming back.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Thanks again @parhamr ! I'm still new to all this so big cuts make me nervous. Although It shouldn't since I've been cutting this other maple out of our rhodies for years now and it just keeps coming back.

Should have pretty good trunk. Why not dig up and use?

 

[BrierPatch]

Should have pretty good trunk. Why not dig up and use?

I would like too because yes the trunk is nice and big now but it's growing right at the base of a 30yr old rhodie and so locked into the roots it would be near impossible.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I would like too because yes the trunk is nice and big now but it's growing right at the base of a 30yr old rhodie and so locked into the roots it would be near impossible.

Aha.