Fertilize Chopped Tree?

[Jzack605]

I've started fertilizing all my evergreens, and whips. I have a Dogwood that I chopped and it's starting to show buds. Do you all fertilize chopped trees? Was done this Late winter.

 

[0soyoung]

Budding requires good nitrogen nutrition. This is best accomplished before 'chopping'.

Trees cannot be forced to take in things - the take what the please and only what they please.
Growth can be retarded by the absence of a nutrient.

Too much salt (fertilizer) in the soil will draw water out of the tree (though the roots) = desiccation, aka. fertilizer burn.

Nothing in this list of tidbits is contingent upon the state of the tree.

 

[garywood]

I've started fertilizing all my evergreens, and whips. I have a Dogwood that I chopped and it's starting to show buds. Do you all fertilize chopped trees? Was done this Late winter.

Zack, Dogwood, genetically have long internodes. Early fertilizing encourage longer internode length, so, if that is a concern wait until growth is hardened.

 

[Jzack605]

I should specify that it hasn’t quite suckered up yet like I am hoping. An old sucker is starting to break bud.

Addition of fertilizer should help? For some reason I vaguely remember don’t add fert to chopped trees.

 

[0soyoung]

Chopped trees tend to explode with long shoots/internodes.
More (nitrogen than is already in the soil/substrate) just makes matters worse, so you want to starve it for a while.

IOW, no fertilizer for a while.

Of course, if you don't want to keep any of these (i.e., chop them off and start over later) fertilize with abandon.

Say, @garywood, do you have a physilological explanation of why abundant nitrogen = long internodes?

 

[garywood]

Chopped trees tend to explode with long shoots/internodes.
More (nitrogen than is already in the soil/substrate) just makes matters worse, so you want to starve it for a while.

IOW, no fertilizer for a while.

Of course, if you don't want to keep any of these (i.e., chop them off and start over later) fertilize with abandon.

Say, @garywood, do you have a physilological explanation of why abundant nitrogen = long internodes?

Naught, anecdotal, and a slight bit empirical ;-) Higher ratio of cytokinin. Dogwood and most fruit tees react this way if only minor pruning. Water sprouts, suckers, name your poison.

 

[Jzack605]

Chopped trees tend to explode with long shoots/internodes.
More (nitrogen than is already in the soil/substrate) just makes matters worse, so you want to starve it for a while.

IOW, no fertilizer for a while.

Of course, if you don't want to keep any of these (i.e., chop them off and start over later) fertilize with abandon.

Say, @garywood, do you have a physilological explanation of why abundant nitrogen = long internodes?

How much nitrogen is really available in bonsai soil? (Which it’s in)

 

[twisted trees]

I've started fertilizing all my evergreens, and whips. I have a Dogwood that I chopped and it's starting to show buds. Do you all fertilize chopped trees? Was done this Late winter.

First, the proper term is drastically pruned not chopped. After it shows vigorous growth then fertilize with a high nitrogen mix.

 

[twisted trees]

How much nitrogen is really available in bonsai soil? (Which it’s in)

None. That's why we fertilize.

 

[twisted trees]

Zack, Dogwood, genetically have long internodes. Early fertilizing encourage longer internode length, so, if that is a concern wait until growth is hardened.

What you want to happen is have vigorous early growth to thicken new branching. Wire them down in late spring and fertilize heavily. Next year, prune it for structure and repeat the process. In a few years of this you with have strong tapered branching. After that, go for ramification.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Chopped trees tend to explode with long shoots/internodes.
More (nitrogen than is already in the soil/substrate) just makes matters worse, so you want to starve it for a while.

IOW, no fertilizer for a while.

Of course, if you don't want to keep any of these (i.e., chop them off and start over later) fertilize with abandon.

Say, @garywood, do you have a physilological explanation of why abundant nitrogen = long internodes?

Higher nitrogen content tends to improve water permeability (urea does that, cells stretch more if they contain more water) as well as protein synthesis (almost always nitrogen driven). Evolutionary, high nitrogen locations are places where animals poop. That's sheltered and in the shade, or in tall grass. Since nitrogen is so easily washed out or evaporated, plants tend to use all of it as soon as possible, investing in growth meant to escape 'toilet conditions'.
I believe there's a giant cascade going on with nitrogen, but this is the simplest explanation I can put out here without confusing people too much.
The increased internode length can be combatted with hightened sun exposure, sometimes to such an extent that nitrogen doesn't make much of a difference.
That has more to do with auxin breakdown, but I haven't been able to connect the two. They are connected, we're talking plants here, it's all connected. I just haven't found out what and how.

 

[0soyoung]

Higher nitrogen content tends to improve water permeability (urea does that, cells stretch more if they contain more water)

We're kinda hijacking @Jzack605's thread, but so it goes ...

AFAIK, auxin affects cell expansion by stimulating water filling the vacuole (by osmosis). Cellulose fibers coiled around the cell membrane cause the cell to lengthen rather than simply inflate like a balloon. A somewhat lower auxin level leads to cross-linking these fibers and the cell size becomes fixed.

Naught, anecdotal, and a slight bit empirical ;-) Higher ratio of cytokinin. Dogwood and most fruit tees react this way if only minor pruning. Water sprouts, suckers, name your poison.

Cytokinins cause bud release and are often represented to signal plentiful nitrogen or 'lots of roots here'. But most notably cytokinin and auxin are antogonists - one opposes the effect of the other. I have verified this for myself by spraying an artificial cytokinin (BA/BAP) right after bud release. Nodes are indeed shorted by this added cytokinin and the effect can be quite dramatic (and can lead to lots of undesirable problems as well).

So I figure that plentiful nitrogen leads to higher auxin production in released meristems (tips of growing shoots). Auxins are nitrogenous compounds. There is no denying the empirical evidence - these are facts. This is reality (with which I often have great difficulty ). I just wish I understood it better.

 

[Jzack605]

Hijack away, good content so no complaints here.

This tree is making me impatient. Everyday I get home from work I closely inspect for suckers from the trunk; I have to keep reminding myself most dogwoods are just in flower or just barely leafing out. I spread some organic fert a few days ago for what it’s worth.

 

[Ali Raza]

You can fertilizer them with low doses. Liquid fertilizer will be more advisable.

 

[Jzack605]

You can fertilizer them with low doses. Liquid fertilizer will be more advisable.

Granular organic fert was put down. Is it best at this point to wait a few weeks before changing to liquid?

 

[M. Frary]

I dont fertilize until I see green.
Then it's balls to the wall with miracle grow.

 

[Ali Raza]

Granular organic fert was put down. Is it best at this point to wait a few weeks before changing to liquid?

Granular Organic slowly releases into the soil over the time. If accumulation of organic material not causes drainage problem in bonsai soil, you can use it. You can use liquid fertilizer as it will be consumed by plants more readily than compared to organic more slow releasing.