English Oak Cultivators

[Gabler]

But I only have one and two degrees of ramification. I'm hoping that when I get my branching to have 4 or 5 degrees of ramification that leaf size will finally come down.

When you say "degrees of ramification," are you referring to the number of forks between the trunk and any given branch tip?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

When you say "degrees of ramification," are you referring to the number of forks between the trunk and any given branch tip?

Yes, exactly

 

[The Warm Canuck]

@The Warm Canuck - I was curious, so I looked up Belleville on the map. Looks like a fairly small town, not likely to have "full service landscape nurseries". You might have to head towards Kingston or Toronto to find a nursery large enough to offer oaks grown from seed. I highly recommend doing so. Look at Quercus alba, the white oak, and Quercus bicolor, the Swamp white oak. Both should do reasonably well in pots, both will eventually develop fairly coarse, attractive bark and leaves will reduce with time and ramification for both. Getting an oak that is the "straight species" meaning just a plant from seed, not a named cultivar has several advantages. One is that you can "chop" to any height and the foliage that will develop will be the same as purchased.

So look further a field to find oaks. You should be able to find suitable candidates without breaking the bank.

Red Oak - Quercus rubra - occasionally has been used for bonsai, it does not develop the same coarse bark of the swamp white oak, but it makes a decent tree.,

Most other northern native oaks are not good candidates. Black oak - Q. velutina has leaves that don't reduce enough.

Bur Oak - Q. macrocarpa - is one I am experimenting with. "The Books" say its leaves are too large, what tempted me to experiment is the fact that its bark is the most rugged, coarse, and dramatic of all the cold hardy oaks. Also it is hardy to zone 3, so I can leave it out in my back yard without extra protection. So far, the "Books" are right, leaves are WAY TOO BIG. But I only have one and two degrees of ramification. I'm hoping that when I get my branching to have 4 or 5 degrees of ramification that leaf size will finally come down.

The nursery where the cultivars that I posted is the largest in the area, but is extremely pricey but they have a large selection of quality trees. They have a large selection of various JM cultivators, that sell upwards to 1K, but they're massive and gorgeous. There is another nursery close to me that sells a lot of more native trees. I'll check it out soon and see if they have any White Oak.

Funny you say Swamp Oak, I bought a few last year but after doing some research and again read their leaves don't reduce, I just ended up just planting them in the backyard (one died, they need a lot of water). That's great news to me! It's a slow grower, so I'll leave it in the ground for a few more years to develop. The leaves appear to be very large, it will be interesting to see them reduce:




I also have a Burr Oak in the back and the tree is only about 2" thick and it already has beautiful deep fissures in it's bark.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

The nursery where the cultivars that I posted is the largest in the area, but is extremely pricey but they have a large selection of quality trees. They have a large selection of various JM cultivators, that sell upwards to 1K, but they're massive and gorgeous. There is another nursery close to me that sells a lot of more native trees. I'll check it out soon and see if they have any White Oak.

Funny you say Swamp Oak, I bought a few last year but after doing some research and again read their leaves don't reduce, I just ended up just planting them in the backyard (one died, they need a lot of water). That's great news to me! It's a slow grower, so I'll leave it in the ground for a few more years to develop. The leaves appear to be very large, it will be interesting to see them reduce:


View attachment 511075

I also have a Burr Oak in the back and the tree is only about 2" thick and it already has beautiful deep fissures in it's bark.

another few pics of the swamp oak. The trunks currently only about a 1-1/2". It's growing in pretty crappy soil, I didn't amend it at all when planted, pretty much all clay, maybe I'll trunk chop it down and put it in a grow bag in better soil in my raised bed in early spring.

How much abuse can this species take?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Oaks in general do not tolerate abuse as well as an elm, or willow, but they are reasonably resilient trees.

Large leaf size is pretty much a universal complaint against oaks, and the main reason they are not in most bonsai books or articles as recommended species. Live oaks species are the possible exception.

Especially if you are new to bonsai, elms, genus Ulmus and Malus, the apple genus, have many easier to work with species. Junipers are also a good place to learn bonsai basics.

Oaks have not been used much because of leaf size. As a result, there is very little in the literature about oaks as bonsai. I do believe that if you get enough fine branching, leaf size will come down. I also believe that better success will be had going for larger size bonsai, say over 2 feet tall. But that is my opinion, my sole oak is only 5 years old and does not have much branching. As a result, huge leaves.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Oaks in general do not tolerate abuse as well as an elm, or willow, but they are reasonably resilient trees.

Large leaf size is pretty much a universal complaint against oaks, and the main reason they are not in most bonsai books or articles as recommended species. Live oaks species are the possible exception.

Especially if you are new to bonsai, elms, genus Ulmus and Malus, the apple genus, have many easier to work with species. Junipers are also a good place to learn bonsai basics.

Oaks have not been used much because of leaf size. As a result, there is very little in the literature about oaks as bonsai. I do believe that if you get enough fine branching, leaf size will come down. I also believe that better success will be had going for larger size bonsai, say over 2 feet tall. But that is my opinion, my sole oak is only 5 years old and does not have much branching. As a result, huge leaves.

I have a lot of different species, but I love oaks and want to give some a try. I've seen some good Bonsai primarily done with English oaks.

On another note, I went to another nursery and found another grafted crimson spire, this one has been left to grow wild and has sprouts from the root stock that are clearly English oak. (As per my plantfinder app). The graft has bulged to around 5" at the base, however it has reverse taper right at the current soil line, but its interesting enough. I was thinking I can either carve the taper out, or just increase the soil line. What do you guys think?




There's also another one, with a bunch of shoots blowing out of the bottom, I need to go back and dig deeper to see whats underneath the soil line:

 

[Gabler]

I have a lot of different species, but I love oaks and want to give some a try. I've seen some good Bonsai primarily done with English oaks.

On another note, I went to another nursery and found another grafted crimson spire, this one has been left to grow wild and has sprouts from the root stock that are clearly English oak. (As per my plantfinder app). The graft has bulged to around 5" at the base, however it has reverse taper right at the current soil line, but its interesting enough. I was thinking I can either carve the taper out, or just increase the soil line. What do you guys think?

View attachment 511282
View attachment 511283
View attachment 511284
There's also another one, with a bunch of shoots blowing out of the bottom, I need to go back and dig deeper to see whats underneath the soil line:
View attachment 511285

I'd just stay clear of grafted trees. More trouble than they're worth.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

I'd just stay clear of grafted trees. More trouble than they're worth.

I'm not even sure its even grafted, I can't make it out if it is and if it is, they main trunk would be the graft and the smaller right hand would be the root stock.