Empty branches left by cones on Scot pine

[Nishant]

Hello Friends, attached is the picture that I want to talk about . This’s summer there were cones on this part of the branch. I have similar Empty branches all over.

Is there any specific advise on how to do away with these?

Thanks fir your suggestion.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

No experience with those kind of branches, but in most scots pines, as long as there are needles on the old wood during summer (they shed the old needles around june here), you can cut back to it and it will bud on that branch.

 

[Shibui]

I don't grow scots pine but those bare necks are common to most species. New spring shoots extend but only grow needles at the outer ends leaving bare parts at the base of each shoot. Old needles eventually die and fall off leaving interior bare. After a few years you end up with a pine that has long bare branches and foliage just at the ends so pruning is important to maintain good shape. Pines rarely sprout new shoots from bare wood so cannot be cut back hard like most deciduous trees.

With black pines we remove the spring shoots some time in early summer and they grow new, shorter buds which generally don't have the bare section - problem solved (there is a little more to it than that)
I believe that scots pines are single flush species so they won't grow the second shoots if pruned in summer but they should still grow new buds the following spring.
You will need to research maintenance for single flush pines or more specifically scots pine to get advice on how to manage pruning and equalising strength so you can maintain the pine long term.

 

[sorce]

Looks like you may already have good buds below there.

Sorce

 

[penumbra]

Is it too late to cut them back this year? I have a 35 year old Scots pine that has been neglected but is generally healthy.

 

[Tieball]

You may have all of this resolved already.....and I’m late. But just in case...
I found this helpful in thinking through pine back budding. I was interested in Jack Pines when I found this. I have not tried it myself yet as the Jack Pine I have needs a little more time in the box after the spring collection this year. This article helped me think about what I will do and how to approach the process of back budding....particularly the part about leaving green needles on the ends of branches. I agree with the needle cutting and that’s what I plan to do. Here’s the link.

Tips

 

[penumbra]

Interesting post. I have to decide if it is prudent to work on my Scots pine now or wait until next June. I will probably do a little now to see how it responds.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Scots pines can double flush when fed vigorously. Of the 150 I own, around 40 of them double flush. They don't backbud as easily with JBP techniques applied. But they can back bud on pretty old wood, and two scots pine cultivars (Norsk Typ; green foliage and Watereri; glaucous foliage) do it better and more consistently than JBP.
I see them as 'single and a half flush' pines.

With scots pine it's usually not that handy to cut back like a JBP and remove the entire shoot (note that I say shoot, not candle), but instead I like to leave a few pairs of needles (4-12 pairs). I do this after the needles have hardened off. This has led to consistent terminal bud formation; usually in pairs, sometimes 5 or more.
In stronger specimens, you could remove the new shoot entirely, but budding becomes inconsistent when that's practiced. If there are no old needles, the entire branch could just die - or bud all over the place. With cone structures acting like this, I'd say it's wiser to do so - cut the entire new shoot - and hope for the best. I've found that most scots pines like this sooner rather than later, when the candle has become a shoot and you leave them for a couple of weeks, and then cut back, they seem to bud closer to the trunk. This is before the shoots have hardened off, when the needles are still soft and can easily be pulled.
If there are buds lower down and the tree is healthy, cut away freely. They'll take it. And they'll probably pop out a small shoot before winter.
Pushing growth back on a scots pine reliably is hard, but they seem pretty resilient. I have more than a few needle-less stubs that pushed a few buds. When the wood is over 4 years old, it seems to get harder.

My scots pines were cut to 4-12 pairs around the end of june and they're almost done forming new apical buds. So it's late, but not too late.

Of course, I'm reasoning from my own climate; we're about 1,5 months away from the start of the autumn.
Please also note that my experience is limited to 3 years of experimentation. If other more experienced people chime in, listen to them.

 

[M. Frary]

Cut it back now.

 

[Adair M]

Cut it back now.

Get to the point, Frary!

Lol!!!

 

[penumbra]

Thanks Wires_Guy_wires. You have given me more hands on info than I could find online in 2 hours. I also have at least 6 weeks before frost, probably longer. I did a cut back today but I took it rather easy. There were already a lot more back buds than I had realized so I did a lot of tip pruning. I have no doubt this tree will do well as I have had it for 35 years and it has received more care in the last 2 or 3 years than in the last 10 or 15 years.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@Wires_Guy_wires
I disagree with calling Scots pine a double flush pine, 40/150 is only 26% of your sample. This is not reliable to plan on using JBP techniques. For JBP more than 75%, close to 100% if healthy, will grow a second set of shoots if candle pruned. For JBP, they are reliable as double flush pines.

Scots pine is only reliable as a single flush pine. Don't call it a double flush pine, you will confuse the newbies.

I don't doubt your observations, just the confusion generated by referring to the 26% occurance as being "double flush". Young trees especially will behave like this, and as they mature will become less and less likely to send a second flush.

Also, named, grafted cultivars may have bud patterns that deviate from the type for the species. For example the "yatsubusa" mutation causes multiple budding. Congested dwarf cultivars may be just this type of mutation. Can't characterize the whole species from the traits of a mutated dwarf cultivar.

Normal, average behavior for Scots pine is as a single flush pine.

 

[M. Frary]

Get to the point, Frary!

Lol!!!

Bluntness is a desirable trait to have.
But.
I was at the show venue doing set up.
Didn't really have the time to get into details but we're cutting the crap out of them this weekend.
This is the perfect time to cut Scots to get maximum back budding.
The new buds are just now forming so the juice is flowing.
You know that at that time if you cut this years shoots(candles for the JBP enthusiasts) that buds can appear on old wood even.

 

[M. Frary]

Scots pines can double flush when fed vigorously

Been there.
Done that.
Not anymore.
That so called second flush is the result of cutting too early.
What you are seeing is still the first flush interrupted.
Now the tree scrambles to grow its buds and they turn out funky.
You are actually setting the tree back instead of moving forward.

 

[0soyoung]

Bluntness is a desirable trait to have.

Like, totally dude.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I stand corrected, thanks Mike and Leo!

Most 'double flushing' scots in my yard weren't cut at all though.
I think it's a result of a good and early spring combined with a good nutrient supply. And genetics of course.
For the past decade our growing season has increased by almost two or three months. This seems to be enough to produce another, weaker, flush of growth in at least some of them.
My oldest scots pine is around 15 years of age, so I can't really speak for older specimens.

Sorry for throwing people off balance, treat them as single flush.

 

[M. Frary]

I stand corrected, thanks Mike and Leo!

Most 'double flushing' scots in my yard weren't cut at all though.
I think it's a result of a good and early spring combined with a good nutrient supply. And genetics of course.
For the past decade our growing season has increased by almost two or three months. This seems to be enough to produce another, weaker, flush of growth in at least some of them.
My oldest scots pine is around 15 years of age, so I can't really speak for older specimens.

Sorry for throwing people off balance, treat them as single flush.

I realized this a couple years ago.
Mugo pines and jack pines will do it also.

 

[Wilson]

I stand corrected, thanks Mike and Leo!

Most 'double flushing' scots in my yard weren't cut at all though.
I think it's a result of a good and early spring combined with a good nutrient supply. And genetics of course.
For the past decade our growing season has increased by almost two or three months. This seems to be enough to produce another, weaker, flush of growth in at least some of them.
My oldest scots pine is around 15 years of age, so I can't really speak for older specimens.

Sorry for throwing people off balance, treat them as single flush.

All three types of pines(scots,resinosa,EWP) in my garden push second flushes on their own as well. These are garden trees, but it has been consistant fŕom year to year.

 

[August44]

You may have all of this resolved already.....and I’m late. But just in case...
I found this helpful in thinking through pine back budding. I was interested in Jack Pines when I found this. I have not tried it myself yet as the Jack Pine I have needs a little more time in the box after the spring collection this year. This article helped me think about what I will do and how to approach the process of back budding....particularly the part about leaving green needles on the ends of branches. I agree with the needle cutting and that’s what I plan to do. Here’s the link.

Tips

That is a good link and thanks for posting. Did that come from a book or where if I can ask. Who is Peter?

 

[M. Frary]

Who is Peter?

Pumpkineater?